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Subject: Back or Not Back--It's a really tough call! rss

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Robert Haddon
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The beautiful minis (Diemension earns bonus points for posting photos of actual sculpts and not just 3D renders) and a theme that's right up my alley is tugging hard at my wallet, but I'm just not quite there yet.

As has been much talked about already, the writing quality is a bit of a concern but I'm sure DG will get that sorted eventually. I also don't really mind that this is probably a mid-2018 game at the earliest, given the success of the KS so far and the fact that DG are rookies at this sort of thing.

And there we come to what probably worries me the most: DG are rookies. That adds quite a bit of risk to the KS and is probably also responsible for the reports of non-differentiated dungeon crawl gameplay.

I want to keep the other $99 in my pocket for now, but we'll see. Gorgeous minis tend to weaken my resolve.
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Greg
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Wait for the gameplay video, that might help you decide.
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steve mohrbacher
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Agreed. Gonna wait for the gameplay video, but I am quite interested. I do not have any other combat oriented mini game other then Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.
 
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xen3000 wrote:
Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.

I actually think although this may be more rules heavy than FTZ, I don't see how this has more depth. The card play in FTZ is top notch whereas you have to consider which cards to use, whether to save the card for health or save the card for a reaction or try to go all out and use your tactics cards next turn. I think in DM it'll just be a matter of move there, roll as many dice as you can to kill the monster, rinse and repeat. Now I think this game fills a nice spot as a fast shoot 'em up but until I see a video of actual game play I don't see this game having a lot of strategic or tactical depth.
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Logus Vile wrote:
xen3000 wrote:
Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.

I actually think although this may be more rules heavy than FTZ, I don't see how this has more depth. The card play in FTZ is top notch whereas you have to consider which cards to use, whether to save the card for health or save the card for a reaction or try to go all out and use your tactics cards next turn. I think in DM it'll just be a matter of move there, roll as many dice as you can to kill the monster, rinse and repeat. Now I think this game fills a nice spot as a fast shoot 'em up but until I see a video of actual game play I don't see this game having a lot of strategic or tactical depth.


Yes, I misspoke. I actually think FTZ *does* have more depth then what DM will offer. By "depth", I was actually thinking of the fiddly dice rolling involved in D&D and Heroquest. So, a better way of putting it is that this will involve more dice chucking and "dice maths" and less strategy then what FTZ demands.

Yeah, doesn't really make sense reading what I originally posted, but that's what I meant. Either way, the real draw is that DM offer 6 player support out of the box, FTZ only really offers 4. It also offers a large selection of playable characters, FTZ only really offers 4. Still, I am gonna wait on a gameplay video.
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Andy Dunks
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I was backing this, with some reservations, until I saw the Kickstarter for The Edge: Dawnfall go up yesterday. It doesn't quite fill the same niche as Deep Madness, but it has innovative mechanics from an established designer and publisher, and sculpts as awesome as Deep Madness,so that's where I diverted my money.

If I could back both, I would, but I think I can count on Gloomhaven, Midarra, Dark Souls and Siege of the Citadel to feel the dungeon-crawl-ish niche that Deep Madness is competing for.

 
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Friedmutant wrote:
As has been much talked about already, the writing quality is a bit of a concern but I'm sure DG will get that sorted eventually.


Lobotomy wasn't sorted out.
Conan wasn't sorted out.
Prodos / Archon didn't even know their writer plagiarized Rum and Bones.

Of course, Myth wasn't originally sorted out, and even Dominion is being revised. No comment about Dungeon Saga's Adventurer's Companion, though. whistle
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Atvar wrote:
I was backing this, with some reservations, until I saw the Kickstarter for The Edge: Dawnfall go up yesterday. It doesn't quite fill the same niche as Deep Madness, but it has innovative mechanics from an established designer and publisher, and sculpts as awesome as Deep Madness,so that's where I diverted my money.

If I could back both, I would, but I think I can count on Gloomhaven, Midarra, Dark Souls and Siege of the Citadel to feel the dungeon-crawl-ish niche that Deep Madness is competing for.



Edge seems more like a traditional miniatures game . . . but with much simpler rules. I don't know if I want to buy team packs for a chunk of change. I'd be much better off buying another Guild Ball team and ending up with a superior game.

But I'll have to see some more videos, I guess. After the whole Conan nonsense, I'm VERY skeptical of all miniatures games on Kickstarter.
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broken clock wrote:
After the whole Conan nonsense, I'm VERY skeptical of all miniatures games on Kickstarter.

I backed Conan but had buyer's remorse immediately after because I don't like 1 vs many games despite the theme, so I asked for refund.

I don't want to take this too far off topic, but what nonsense?
 
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Kasper Lauest
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Provided that nothing goes wrong (which admittedly is a risk with a kickstarter from a new company), then this is probably a pretty safe investment. The sheer number of minis should make it pretty easy to sell on the second hand market if you end up not wanting to keep it.
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Logus Vile wrote:
I don't want to take this too far off topic, but what nonsense?


While Conan was playtested, based on how the rulebook and cards were written, some BGG'ers are suggesting that, even if the game was playtested, it was not playtested after translating from its original French to English: https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1658988/conan-another-one-t...
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Loig Roumois
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yes, but it's easier to fix a bad translation than to fix a whole game (eg. myth)
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Ondrej Kocnar
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Logus Vile wrote:
xen3000 wrote:
Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.

I actually think although this may be more rules heavy than FTZ, I don't see how this has more depth. The card play in FTZ is top notch whereas you have to consider which cards to use, whether to save the card for health or save the card for a reaction or try to go all out and use your tactics cards next turn. I think in DM it'll just be a matter of move there, roll as many dice as you can to kill the monster, rinse and repeat. Now I think this game fills a nice spot as a fast shoot 'em up but until I see a video of actual game play I don't see this game having a lot of strategic or tactical depth.


Personally FTZ did not have much interest or depth to me.
I did not like periodically appearing monsters - felt monotonous.

All in all: FTZ is rather different game than Deep Madness.
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Nick
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For me, the question would be more like "To all-in or not to all-in, that is the question", sit down and loking at a wallet inside my hand laugh
 
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Chris Guild
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For me I thought the underwater theme was great and I'm a sucker for minis. With the way the campaign is going it's going to be well worth the money IMO. I how ever, am not going all in, I have too much stuff to play already and too many minis to paint as it is, so I'm pretty sure the expansion won't hit the table very often. Those card holders look tempting though.
 
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Shelby Babb
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Atvar wrote:
I was backing this, with some reservations, until I saw the Kickstarter for The Edge: Dawnfall go up yesterday. It doesn't quite fill the same niche as Deep Madness, but it has innovative mechanics from an established designer and publisher, and sculpts as awesome as Deep Madness,so that's where I diverted my money.


There -does- look to be a lot of love being put into the Edge, and I think the folks making it have more passion and talent and innovation (not to say Diemension Games lacks these things though!). But in the end... at -my- table I see Deep Madness getting more play and being a better bang for the buck. Plus, the lack of a rulebook is a huge turn off for me (I'm betting they're holding off until they can get a proper English translation out).
 
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okocnar wrote:


Personally FTZ did not have much interest or depth to me.
I did not like periodically appearing monsters - felt monotonous.

All in all: FTZ is rather different game than Deep Madness.

FTZ is definitely not perfect either. You must look at the monsters almost as a tower defense game, and movement is very limited. However, the card play is outstanding and I agree they are different games that share the same monster aesthetic.
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Brian C
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For now I've decided not to back, with the allowance that the gameplay video could possibly change my mind if it shows significant depth. Because that's my main criteria going forward with these board game dungeon crawls. Depth (a word already being whispered in this thread, and I'm glad for it).

We've had a lot of dungeon crawls coming out over the past couple years, which is awesome, but most of them run along the same vein: light-weight, easy-in affairs that might be cool gateway games, or great to play with the kids, but due to their light weight, they cannot hope to keep you interested for long.

This one seems to have a bit more depth than some others, but probably, IMO, not enough.

The next dungeon crawl I back/buy, I want to have Gloomhaven or KD:M sized depth to it. I want it to have absurd amounts of thought put into it. That's the one I want to show support for.

Otherwise, if I back every light-weight, easy to build dungeon crawl that comes our way, I'll be broke by the time that one badass ends up rolling around. Fortunately I have enough games to entertain me in the meantime. But if you're still looking to fill your game-shelf, this could be a solid addition.

My 2 cents.
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Loig wrote:
yes, but it's easier to fix a bad translation than to fix a whole game (eg. myth)


Myth had a bad rulebook. The game itself didn't need fixing. As evidenced by a very successful 2nd kickstarter.

Jorune
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okocnar wrote:
Logus Vile wrote:
xen3000 wrote:
Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.

I actually think although this may be more rules heavy than FTZ, I don't see how this has more depth. The card play in FTZ is top notch whereas you have to consider which cards to use, whether to save the card for health or save the card for a reaction or try to go all out and use your tactics cards next turn. I think in DM it'll just be a matter of move there, roll as many dice as you can to kill the monster, rinse and repeat. Now I think this game fills a nice spot as a fast shoot 'em up but until I see a video of actual game play I don't see this game having a lot of strategic or tactical depth.


Personally FTZ did not have much interest or depth to me.
I did not like periodically appearing monsters - felt monotonous.

All in all: FTZ is rather different game than Deep Madness.


The card play is very deep within FTZ. Combined with the simple to learn rules and it is a wonderful game.

I've read the Deep Madness rulebook and watched Undead Viking's preview and I don't see anything deep or new in this game.

Jorune
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Kasper Lauest
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I'm not looking for anything new, as I don't own or even like any dungeon crawlers. I own Imperial Assault but haven't played it yet. However, I'm thinking that I could use a light coop dungeon crawler to play with my 6 year old son, who really wants to play games with monsters, but is really not capable of comprehending the type of games that I currently own with monster themes (War of the ring, Blood Rage, Mage Wars, Mage Knight, Lotr LCg).
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steve mohrbacher
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Jorune wrote:
okocnar wrote:
Logus Vile wrote:
xen3000 wrote:
Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.

I actually think although this may be more rules heavy than FTZ, I don't see how this has more depth. The card play in FTZ is top notch whereas you have to consider which cards to use, whether to save the card for health or save the card for a reaction or try to go all out and use your tactics cards next turn. I think in DM it'll just be a matter of move there, roll as many dice as you can to kill the monster, rinse and repeat. Now I think this game fills a nice spot as a fast shoot 'em up but until I see a video of actual game play I don't see this game having a lot of strategic or tactical depth.


Personally FTZ did not have much interest or depth to me.
I did not like periodically appearing monsters - felt monotonous.

All in all: FTZ is rather different game than Deep Madness.


The card play is very deep within FTZ. Combined with the simple to learn rules and it is a wonderful game.

I've read the Deep Madness rulebook and watched Undead Viking's preview and I don't see anything deep or new in this game.

Jorune


Well, the real question is whether this is a good option for a light, coop, dice chucking dungeon crawler. Is it worth investing in this Kickstarter or should I get one a different game that fills the same role? I have FTZ and love it, but it is limited to 4 players and is a bit more involved when playing. I have no board game that fits what SM appears to be offering. So, is there an alternate game that would be recommended over DM?
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xen3000 wrote:
Jorune wrote:
okocnar wrote:
Logus Vile wrote:
xen3000 wrote:
Fireteam Zero, which is amazing, but this is a bit more in depth and allows for 6 players.

I actually think although this may be more rules heavy than FTZ, I don't see how this has more depth. The card play in FTZ is top notch whereas you have to consider which cards to use, whether to save the card for health or save the card for a reaction or try to go all out and use your tactics cards next turn. I think in DM it'll just be a matter of move there, roll as many dice as you can to kill the monster, rinse and repeat. Now I think this game fills a nice spot as a fast shoot 'em up but until I see a video of actual game play I don't see this game having a lot of strategic or tactical depth.


Personally FTZ did not have much interest or depth to me.
I did not like periodically appearing monsters - felt monotonous.

All in all: FTZ is rather different game than Deep Madness.


The card play is very deep within FTZ. Combined with the simple to learn rules and it is a wonderful game.

I've read the Deep Madness rulebook and watched Undead Viking's preview and I don't see anything deep or new in this game.

Jorune


Well, the real question is whether this is a good option for a light, coop, dice chucking dungeon crawler. Is it worth investing in this Kickstarter or should I get one a different game that fills the same role? I have FTZ and love it, but it is limited to 4 players and is a bit more involved when playing. I have no board game that fits what SM appears to be offering. So, is there an alternate game that would be recommended over DM?


Very tough question.

To begin with, if you dont' have a game like this, wouldn't you want one that is out now? This game is at least a year away assuming all goes well. The fact that even experienced KS creators (CMON) routinely have delays, and I suspect that this game is longer than a year out.

With that, I think Zombicide fills the role for a 'light, coop, dice chucking dungeon crawler.' Its out. It has a proven track record. Your heroes level up in game, etc.

Jorune
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Jorune wrote:

Very tough question.

To begin with, if you dont' have a game like this, wouldn't you want one that is out now? This game is at least a year away assuming all goes well. The fact that even experienced KS creators (CMON) routinely have delays, and I suspect that this game is longer than a year out.

With that, I think Zombicide fills the role for a 'light, coop, dice chucking dungeon crawler.' Its out. It has a proven track record. Your heroes level up in game, etc.

Jorune


Yeah, I am pretty patient when it comes to buying games, so I am more interested in getting value and quality. My group is still enjoying FTZ and Millennium Blades, when we don't have too many people of course. I have heard good things about Zombicide, but I get the impression the monsters from DM are a bit more "interesting" and varied in combat. Getting DM at KS is also decent monetary deal, granted I would be waiting up to 2 years for delivery. The theme of DM is also pretty appealing and the crossover potential with FTZ is good.

Thanks for your insight. Will look into Zombicide. Any other games you'd suggest looking at?
 
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Ukko Kaarto
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Exo Desta wrote:
For now I've decided not to back, with the allowance that the gameplay video could possibly change my mind if it shows significant depth. Because that's my main criteria going forward with these board game dungeon crawls. Depth (a word already being whispered in this thread, and I'm glad for it).

We've had a lot of dungeon crawls coming out over the past couple years, which is awesome, but most of them run along the same vein: light-weight, easy-in affairs that might be cool gateway games, or great to play with the kids, but due to their light weight, they cannot hope to keep you interested for long.

This one seems to have a bit more depth than some others, but probably, IMO, not enough.

The next dungeon crawl I back/buy, I want to have Gloomhaven or KD:M sized depth to it. I want it to have absurd amounts of thought put into it. That's the one I want to show support for.

Otherwise, if I back every light-weight, easy to build dungeon crawl that comes our way, I'll be broke by the time that one badass ends up rolling around. Fortunately I have enough games to entertain me in the meantime. But if you're still looking to fill your game-shelf, this could be a solid addition.

My 2 cents.


You should at least check Perdition's Mouth. It is quite different from other stuff at the market at the moment.

I'm going to wait for the video too before making any decisions about this game.
 
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