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Fury of Dracula (third edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: Has no one thought of this? rss

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Grant Farnsworth
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So, I have been thinking about the fact that the hunters can only initiate an attack during the night, when Dracula is at his strongest, and that Dracula can only initiate an attack himself during the day, when he is at his weakest. This just seems backwards to me. If I am hunting a big scary monster, wouldn't I want to wait until he isn't so tough? Or if I am the big scary monster, don't I want to pounce on my prey when I am most powerful? Sure the game works great as is, but I am a believer that you shouldn't toss out new ideas before you try them. Thinking about this lead me to a beautifully simple idea: why not just switch that so everyone can initiate combat during the most beneficial times of day?

After verifying that such a rule will not cause problems with any of the rules, encounters, equipment, events, etc., I have come up with something so simple that I'm sure somebody must have tried it out before. So here it is, in all it's simplicity.

For combat purposes, dawn is considered to be during the night, and dusk is considered to be during the day.


This one little rule will bring a big thematic improvement to the game, in that Dracula can swoop in and attack someone at night, and the hunters can plan out and execute attacks against Dracula during the day. More importantly, though, I believe that this will lead to other interesting changes to the game. I probably won't have time to fully test this out any time soon, so I will rely on your input to tell me how this actually does effect the balance, gameplay, and theme.

The changes I assume will happen in the gameplay are as follows.
1. Dracula will play more aggressively. Since he can now choose his attacks when he is most powerful, he will more likely attack more frequently.
2. Because of a more aggressive Dracula, the hunters will probably get beat up more quickly.
3. Because of increased Dracula attacks (revealing his location), the hunters will keep better tabs on his location, thus increasing the effectiveness and frequency of their attacks against him. Dracula will also get beat up more quickly.
4. With the increased combat, the game length may be reduced, as now it will be more difficult for Dracula to win simply by running away from the hunters. If he doesn't take the fight to the hunters, they will probably pummel him before 13 influence points.

If the game really does end up working like this, I would think that this would be a great change to try if your Dracula player plays the long game by ducking, hiding, and refusing to come out to play, which will make the game less enjoyable for the hunters. I think that you will see the Dracula player attempting more bites against lone hunters to get points, since the presumably shorter game will make it a tiny bit more challenging to accomplish lengthier tasks, like maturing a vampire.

If you try it out, please share your experience. I am very excited to see how this will turn out.

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Ivor Bolakov
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Quote:
So, I have been thinking about the fact that the hunters can only initiate an attack during the night, when Dracula is at his strongest, and that Dracula can only initiate an attack himself during the day, when he is at his weakest. This just seems backwards to me. If I am hunting a big scary monster, wouldn't I want to wait until he isn't so tough? Or if I am the big scary monster, don't I want to pounce on my prey when I am most powerful?


The designers did actually consider this issue:

Quote:
Twilight Struggles

Another issue we found was the way group combat worked in second edition. It was very difficult for the hunters to group up and attack together. I thought that they should be rewarded for moving together into Dracula’s location, since that meant the players controlling the hunters knew his position. But the separate day and night actions did not help enable group combat until we gave the hunters both a day phase and a night phase.

When hunters moved during the day, a day combat would happen immediately after, and if hunters moved during the night, a night combat would happen. This created some weird situations where there would be two fights within one day. Additionally, it was difficult for players to remember whether they had moved during the day phase and whether they could move during the night. The hunters were also finding Dracula too easily during the day, when they were strongest. We wanted to make combat with Dracula during the day rare and to give Dracula a bit of an edge in one-on-one combat.

While working on Fury of Dracula, I read Bram Stoker’s novel and watched some films as additional background. One thing that really came out in the novel was that Dracula isn’t necessarily an aggressive character. He’s more about subtlety and confusion, and he’s a creature of passion. Although he tries to stay reserved and keep his motives hidden, when the moment strikes him he acts out of desire and can hardly control himself. It therefore seemed reasonable for Dracula to be able to attack only when he was most emotional and most vulnerable — during the day.

With Dracula only able to initiate day fights, and hunters only able to initiate night fights, the game played very differently. The defender had the advantage, the part of the game I liked the most—the deduction element—became more emphasized. Dracula rarely wanted to reveal himself because the hunters would get an advantage with the combat cards if he did, but additionally, the hunters could then respond to Dracula’s position before he could move again. They want to find Dracula, but must be careful not to place themselves alone in a weak position. The day/night system as it now stands rewards both well-organized hunters and a sneaky Dracula.


https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/10/9/the-dev...
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Grant Farnsworth
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Thank you, that is very informative. I can see how the designers intentionally made the game as true as possible to the feel of the novel, and they did a great job. I just want to see if this alteration would satisfy a group who wanted a more aggressive or potentially quicker game.
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Randal Divinski
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Has no one thought of... using a Subject header that will tell a browsing forum user what the subject of your post is?

Has no one thought of... searching the forum of the 4-6 already existing long threads discussing the topic the OP wonders if anyone has thought of?

P.S. That aside, the proposed variant [posted in the right section!] is worthy of discussion. My own impression is that things are the way they are because the designers found it necessary to balance play, and flipping things will throw everything out of whack. But it is still a useful exercise to test the premise and trace the implications of such a change. If nothing else, it will lead to a more complete understanding of how the parts fit together.
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Chris Merritt
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I feel this variant would highly favor the Hunters, primarily because if they stumble across Dracula's location, they will be fighting him during the daytime when he is weaker. If Dracula were to attack a Hunter, sure, he'll have his nighttime abilities now, but then the Hunter can spend his daytime action not moving and either healing or supplying and is then ready to fight Dracula again at dusk (which would now be a daytime combat). Additionally, the other Hunters will know exactly where Dracula is, as he will not have been able to move after attacking, and can come join in the fight.

This variant actually DISCOURAGES Dracula from attacking, IMO. He'd get one good attack off and then be at the mercy of the Hunters.
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Grant Farnsworth
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Hi Randal.
I apologize if my title rubbed you the wrong way. It was not meant to be condescending at all. If you would kindly send me links to those threads, I would love to see them, and read up on this idea. As a very busy college student with a full time job and kids, I just don't have the time to peruse every thread, as you suggested; I did, however, check in the "variants" section (where I would expect to find such a topic) before writing this post.

Any constructive conversation would be appreciated; you seem like you are quite well informed in this area. Thank you for taking notice, even if I didn't appropriately label my post.

Proverbs 15:1
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Randal Divinski
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I went to the General FoD forum, and put in search words "Dusk" and "Combat". There are lots of things to sift through, but here is one example of a previous discussion on this topic.

SUBJECT: Initiating combat.
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23627418#23627418
 
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Ben Rubinstein

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grantfarnsworth wrote:
Hi Randal.
I apologize if my title rubbed you the wrong way. It was not meant to be condescending at all. If you would kindly send me links to those threads, I would love to see them, and read up on this idea. As a very busy college student with a full time job and kids, I just don't have the time to peruse every thread, as you suggested; I did, however, check in the "variants" section (where I would expect to find such a topic) before writing this post.

Any constructive conversation would be appreciated; you seem like you are quite well informed in this area. Thank you for taking notice, even if I didn't appropriately label my post.

Proverbs 15:1


It's still possible to change the subject of this article. Doing so will save people time who are browsing the forums.
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