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Subject: The REAL problem in Conan... read, please... rss

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Giuseppe Vecchione
Italy
Nocera Inferiore
Salerno
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Hello!
I make a premise: we all know how beautiful Conan, how exciting the games, how beautiful are the materials and how solid is the game system... but Conan have a problem... a BIG problem!

Conan is a high-end product, very expensive and full of stuff... but it also demonstrates how the desiners are LAZY!
As it is useful to have loads and loads of miniatures that I can not use? What it is honest "suggest" such heroes to use, when to use the other destroys the balance of a scenario?

Now you might say: "... but we now have a lot of material with which to create our own scenarios! We have a lot of heroes whose stories weave!"
Well... except for the fact that 6 fixed maps are not "much material"... but who is not capable of creating scenarios, who does? A board game is bought to play, not to create the game!

What I am, once you open the box base, it is so beautiful material, which I can use in 12 games (if you refer back, they become repetitive)...
But if I open the boxes of the expansions, what do I have?
"Uh, that's great! A dragon!!! But wait... how do I use? ($35 dragon!!) As it intact in my games? There is not a scenario dedicated to my new dragon... there aren't rules that allow me to use it in other scenarios... but then why I spent $35 for a beautiful dragon?"
...and this is repeated for EVERY add-on expansion box ...

And there's more... I open the box of stretch goals, "Oh my God!! How much stuff!!! But wait... only 4 scenarios? What if I want to use the monkey in another scenario? If I wanted to create me the my horde of monsters? How do I do? What do I need all this, if I can not use it as I want to?"

I repeat: I'm talking about in the shoes of those who IS NOT ABLE TO CREATE YOUR SCENARIOS!

Now what you might say is: "but in the future release (eventually) a campaign to use all the material ... and publish the online scenarios" ...
We ... ok ... but in every single scenario we will have fixed monsters and "suggested heroes" with "suggested equipment" and "suggested spells" ...
Do you know what that looks like? It means that we are prisoners, who can eat ONLY what they want our captors, and ONLY when they want them! While we should be customers of a restaurant, you can choose what to eat between different things (few or many that are) written on a menu that is provided to us !!

Comparison is Descent / Imperial Assault The most striking example (and necessary): I have so many pre-generated scenarios, but in each scenario:
- I can choose to play one single game or campaign
- I can choose which heroes use
- I can choose which mosters use
- I can buy the equipment
- I can choose my skill
MORE I have a lot of material with which to build my scenarios: dozens of monster types, each on 2 different levels, and scores of tiles with which to build endless dungeon !!

"Conan is another game ..." ...?
Ok ... so we wanted to assign "value points" (for example), every monster, every hero, every outfit and every spell so that the two factions could CHOOSE how to play, spending the same points ?

Cabbage! I can not even choose how many friends to play !!
"Wow ... what a great game, I can play?"
"No ... we are already 3"
"But on the box it says 2-5 players"
"Eeh you, but in this scenario can only play in 3 ... I'm sorry, come back next year, when perhaps I receive a campaign where I can choose..."

Understand the concept?
I think one thing: I think that the authors have placed this issue, but then they said "It's okay, so la.community will do the job for us ... we provide some scenery every now and then to keep them happy ..."

Well ... I'm pissed off ... do not you?
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Ville Pynnönen
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No, i'm not.
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Loig Roumois
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hold your horses my friend
A quick search in these forums would have granted you insight:
- All the points you mentioned have been and are discussed in many other threads. Couple of solutions have already been presented
- An official guide will come out that will have rules to include every single addon/monster/Stretchgoal/you name it withing the existing missions (not sure how, but I assume with the same point-system that was used to balance/create the base scenarios).
- hundreds of missions will eventually be available for all kinds of group sizes
- the app will most likely also bring some additional value
- yes the number of printed maps is a limitation. but so is it the case in any other boxed game
- Enjoy the game, don't see this as a competition! it's not chess

- worst case if you don't like it at all, there are many people who missed the campaign and will pay good money for your boxed, try ebay!

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Rockatansky Ash
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Scenarios for all the minis are coming, it has been stated by Monolith.
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Donato
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Monolith made a 'mistake' when they sent the backers Wave 2 miniatures in Wave 1. They thought this would make backers happy but instead it made them feel confused and angry. Not everyone has patience. Too many people want instant gratification.
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Freelance Police
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foxmul84 wrote:
We ... ok ... but in every single scenario we will have fixed monsters and "suggested heroes" with "suggested equipment" and "suggested spells" ...


The Doom / Descent / IA mechanics are *much* simpler than Conan. Basically, you get either better dice, or more dice, and the dice boil down to more hits, more defense, more surges, and more range.

Conan doesn't do this. It's almost a rock-paper-scissors system, where a weapon, hero, or monster will be powerful in one set of circumstances, but not be as strong in another.

Personally, I like that. I'm tired of games where you just roll more dice. I prefer tactical games where I choose the right weapon or spell based what it can and cannot do. A game like that is *much* harder to design, particularly if you put the responsibility in selection with the designer, rather than the player.
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Victor The Geek
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agentdonald wrote:
Too many people want instant gratification.


instant gratification = 1 year late delivery (over 1 year for many people)
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Shawn Garbett
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agentdonald wrote:
Monolith made a 'mistake' when they sent the backers Wave 2 miniatures in Wave 1. They thought this would make backers happy but instead it made them feel confused and angry. Not everyone has patience. Too many people want instant gratification.


I'm upset the all in is so expensive!

I'm upset they haven't shipped yet!

I'm upset they rushed delivery and quality isn't perfect!

Cost, Time, Quality, you get to pick two--if you're lucky.
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Phil Barfly
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foxmul84 wrote:


Well ... I'm pissed off ... do not you?


Yes I am ! I am very very disappointing about what they've done with 3 327 757 $. It's a shame...
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Clanggedin Silverbeard
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Can we get this thread locked? Do we need another whinefest thread when there are others people can cry on?

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Eddie Harr
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There will be an app?
 
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Patrik Severinsson
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Philbarfly wrote:

Yes I am ! I am very very disappointing about what they've done with 3 327 757 $. It's a shame...
I don't think there's ever been any correlation between game quality and the number of kickstarter backers. Amount of plastic though, that's a different story.
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Mad Halfling
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I agree totally with this. If you want to create a scenario yourself, then great, but to do so you will need to "play" it at least 4 times to check it's balanced before you can actually play it. To not have the extra scenarios ready for release for all the addons is pretty poor, as is the current state of the rulebook. Note that I haven't ever complained about the delays to this project, in fact I've defended Monolith, and I'd much rather that either the addons were delayed until they were actually ready, or the whole wave 1 shipping was delayed until this point. This does the whole game a disservice, esp once it hits retails.

If they were beavering away on this, then fine, I'd also be a lot more tolerant, however they've also been spending time (and a fair bit, it rather looks like) on their next project. This is fine whilst they are waiting for manufacturing, but to have this many issues on release doesn't justify them spending time on another project.
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James Groesbeck
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Loig wrote:
- An official guide will come out that will have rules to include every single addon/monster/Stretchgoal/you name it withing the existing missions (not sure how, but I assume with the same point-system that was used to balance/create the base scenarios).


Can you cite your source for this? I don't recall Monolith unequivocally stating this. I think I've seen them say this is something they might look to do.

Believe me I hope I'm wrong and you can show me where they said this will be done for sure.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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Monolith web page has scenarios section. Someone asked in one scenario how he can exchange characters. The answer was the guide is coming. Sorry, I'm too lazy to click trough all scenarios to find the answer, but it's there.
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Itai Perez
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Mad-Halfling wrote:

If they were beavering away on this, then fine, I'd also be a lot more tolerant, however they've also been spending time (and a fair bit, it rather looks like) on their next project.


Not that much. The creative team for Mythic Battles: Pantheon is from Mythic Games, who did all the work in redesigning Mythic Battles and planning the KS project. The artists and sculptors (most of which worked on Conan) are independant. So is the communication team.

So I can tell you that though they provided advice, knowledge and support on Mythic Battles, most of Monolith time up until now has been spent, and still is, on Conan.
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James Groesbeck
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Areinu wrote:
Monolith web page has scenarios section. Someone asked in one scenario how he can exchange characters. The answer was the guide is coming. Sorry, I'm too lazy to click trough all scenarios to find the answer, but it's there.


Do you mean this exchange:

Quote:
Q: Hi, in the scenarios there are always listed the suggested heroes for that scenario with the relative equipment. If I want to change the heroes or the equipment, there are some kind of guidelines which I have to follow to maintain the balance of the game?

A: We will be posting guidelines to which equipment/spells a hero should start with


If so, providing standard starting equipment for each Hero is a far cry from "rules to include every single addon/monster/Stretchgoal/you name it withing the existing missions".

I'm not saying Monolith won't do it, and I hope they do. But I have not seen them say for sure that they are.
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Drake Depew
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I think Herbert Farnsworth said it best when he said "Monkeys aren't donkeys, Quit messing with my head."
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Perry Grosshans
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The Campaign Book which was a $20 add-on will have 19 more scenarios. It's also an art book.
If you check the Kickstarter page you'll see it there.

Of course, no one can be blamed for forgetting this as this campaign is two years old now. ;)
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Doug Nordwall
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eddieharr wrote:
There will be an app?


yes, for the overlord. I assume it will be linked with new scenarios as well, as it is supposed to be linked with the ones that are already there.

like most software, it's perceived as behind schedule
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Taylor Huckstep
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Hopefully they run some competitions like Zombicide for community developed scenarios. Hopefully they continue to compile and support those scenarios like the Zombicide compendiums.

I'm always surprised at how many creative people out there are willing to playtest and share their home brew content.

There is quite a lot of backers on this project. Having not played it yet, if it's as fun as I hope I wouldn't be too worried about further support. If it's fun, continued sales will drive continued support.

I am hoping for more map tiles, however. That's always bothered me since before I backed the game. Be nice for a more modular tile system, similar to Zombicide.

Can't wait for the Campaign book (or the base game at the point )
 
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koraldon
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Why is this in the review section? It is just a rant.
p.s. Imperial assault is the worst Star Wars game I have played. And it has almost no flexibility in the core game(100USD).
On the other hand, conan (esp. in the KS version) has tons of options, and monolith promsied to provide gamers with the rules how to use them.

Just need patience.
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Gilles Daquin
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I agree with Giuseppe. We played today 2 scenarios of Conan, 5 players, and we had much fun. But the amount of figures and limited amount of scenarios make it for an ambivalent overall value.

Put less figures in the box and reduce the price, or add more scenarios right away. Somehow, however beautiful the figures are, and God knows they are, they turn out almost useless in the box as they are. It's a fact that I will not deny, that my friend owner of the box mentions.

Does it make a bad game? No, it is a lot of fun. I just wish more scenarios were included.
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