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Cry Havoc» Forums » Rules

Subject: Trog reserves 4 player gm rss

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Mark etwell
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If a trog player enters a region with a trog token and has to place trogs from the reserve but can't as the trog reserve is empty, does he have to kill a trog and return one to the reserve? This seems to be the case according to the rules, but it doesn't really make thematic sense.

Edit: "Trog" was auto-corrected to "trigger" or "Frog" - corrected.
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James Mathias
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No, if a player enters a region, triggering a Trog token, and there are no Trog minis to fulfill the token's requirements the player that moved in loses one of his minis from that region.
 
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Mark etwell
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Is this still true if it's the Trog player that moves into this space?
 
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James Mathias
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retrowiz wrote:
Is this still true if it's the Trog player that moves into this space?


Yes, this also applies to the Trog player, according to the rules as written.
 
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Jon Snow
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Maybe so, but I won't be playing that way! I imagine it will be changed.
 
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Eric B
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chas59 wrote:
Maybe so, but I won't be playing that way! I imagine it will be changed.


I'm sure Grant will answer this soon enough, but we also played it without removing a unit.
 
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James Mathias
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chas59 wrote:
Maybe so, but I won't be playing that way! I imagine it will be changed.

It is troop management, I don't think it will be changed. You shouldn't move into a region with a Trog token if the reserve is empty.

greasedonkey wrote:
I'm sure Grant will answer this soon enough, but we also played it without removing a unit.

You're free to play however you want, but I think you're removing some of the decisions of the players by removing this rule.
 
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Eric B
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jmathias wrote:
You're free to play however you want, but I think you're removing some of the decisions of the players by removing this rule.


I'm not advocating making my own rules, but it does feel a little odd to kill your own units as the Trog player.

By then me and you, as I've seen you comment on this sub actively, can probably agree that some rules needed some clarification and I feel that this is one of them.
 
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James Mathias
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greasedonkey wrote:
jmathias wrote:
You're free to play however you want, but I think you're removing some of the decisions of the players by removing this rule.


I'm not advocating making my own rules, but it does feel a little odd to kill your own units as the Trog player.

By then me and you, as I've seen you comment on this sub actively, can probably agree that some rules needed some clarification and I feel that this is one of them.


Thematically this indeed does seems strange, but could be spun as you are just resupplying your army reserves. You aren't actually killing a troop.

Yes there are some rules that need clarification, mostly around structures and skills. But this rule seems straight forward to me, and in fact the effect is completely avoidable, and often strategic.

You are always aware of the state of the Trog reserve. There is never a time you would make a move and be blindsided by this rule. Mechanically applying this to the Trogs is a way to get Trog minis back into the reserve for the Trog player to place in new regions when his tokens are triggered.

If I see the reserves are empty, as the Human player I can move into a Trog token area, resolve the token, lose 1 guy and take control, without having to battle, then I have a new place to build structurs. The Trog player wants to keep his reserves full, this rule allows the Trog player to strategically place his minis back in reserve to keep a constant threat of battle on the other factions.
 
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Mark etwell
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We had a great deal of rule confusion in the game as well that the rule book did not clarify. the FAQ on here helped but did not solve all. I wish the rulebook explained the buildings in more (more than none!) detail as well.
 
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Mark etwell
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jmathias wrote:
greasedonkey wrote:
jmathias wrote:
You're free to play however you want, but I think you're removing some of the decisions of the players by removing this rule.


I'm not advocating making my own rules, but it does feel a little odd to kill your own units as the Trog player.

By then me and you, as I've seen you comment on this sub actively, can probably agree that some rules needed some clarification and I feel that this is one of them.


Thematically this indeed does seems strange, but could be spun as you are just resupplying your army reserves. You aren't actually killing a troop.

Yes there are some rules that need clarification, mostly around structures and skills. But this rule seems straight forward to me, and in fact the effect is completely avoidable, and often strategic.

You are always aware of the state of the Trog reserve. There is never a time you would make a move and be blindsided by this rule. Mechanically applying this to the Trogs is a way to get Trog minis back into the reserve for the Trog player to place in new regions when his tokens are triggered.

If I see the reserves are empty, as the Human player I can move into a Trog token area, resolve the token, lose 1 guy and take control, without having to battle, then I have a new place to build structurs. The Trog player wants to keep his reserves full, this rule allows the Trog player to strategically place his minis back in reserve to keep a constant threat of battle on the other factions.
Of course you may be forced into a space like this after a battle and be forced to lose another Trog.
 
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James Mathias
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retrowiz wrote:
jmathias wrote:
greasedonkey wrote:
jmathias wrote:
You're free to play however you want, but I think you're removing some of the decisions of the players by removing this rule.


I'm not advocating making my own rules, but it does feel a little odd to kill your own units as the Trog player.

By then me and you, as I've seen you comment on this sub actively, can probably agree that some rules needed some clarification and I feel that this is one of them.


Thematically this indeed does seems strange, but could be spun as you are just resupplying your army reserves. You aren't actually killing a troop.

Yes there are some rules that need clarification, mostly around structures and skills. But this rule seems straight forward to me, and in fact the effect is completely avoidable, and often strategic.

You are always aware of the state of the Trog reserve. There is never a time you would make a move and be blindsided by this rule. Mechanically applying this to the Trogs is a way to get Trog minis back into the reserve for the Trog player to place in new regions when his tokens are triggered.

If I see the reserves are empty, as the Human player I can move into a Trog token area, resolve the token, lose 1 guy and take control, without having to battle, then I have a new place to build structurs. The Trog player wants to keep his reserves full, this rule allows the Trog player to strategically place his minis back in reserve to keep a constant threat of battle on the other factions.
Of course you may be forced into a space like this after a battle and be forced to lose another Trog.


Fair enough, but still not a surprise.
 
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Nathaniel Chambers
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The other night I played it we played the trog does not lose a unit. As mentioned, it doesn't make sense. This definitely needs some game creator level clarification IMHO as the answer is not obvious.
 
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Grant Rodiek
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Hi Friends --

If a Pilgrim/Human/Machine moves into a Region and resolves a Trog War Party token or Trog Nest, and there are no Trogs in the reserve to add?

1. Remove 1 of your Units
2. Add any Crystals
3. Place a Control Marker

If a Trog Unit moves into a Region and resolves a Trog War Party token or Trog nest, and there are no Trogs in the reserve to add?

1. Do NOT remove a Trog Unit
2. Add any Crystals
3. Place a Control Marker

Thanks,
grant
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James Mathias
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HerrohGrant wrote:
Hi Friends --

If a Pilgrim/Human/Machine moves into a Region and resolves a Trog War Party token or Trog Nest, and there are no Trogs in the reserve to add?

1. Remove 1 of your Units
2. Add any Crystals
3. Place a Control Marker

If a Trog Unit moves into a Region and resolves a Trog War Party token or Trog nest, and there are no Trogs in the reserve to add?

1. Do NOT remove a Trog Unit
2. Add any Crystals
3. Place a Control Marker

Thanks,
grant


Is this a rule change/errata, or did I miss this clarification in the rulebook, or FAQ?
 
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Grant Rodiek
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jmathias wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
Hi Friends --

If a Pilgrim/Human/Machine moves into a Region and resolves a Trog War Party token or Trog Nest, and there are no Trogs in the reserve to add?

1. Remove 1 of your Units
2. Add any Crystals
3. Place a Control Marker

If a Trog Unit moves into a Region and resolves a Trog War Party token or Trog nest, and there are no Trogs in the reserve to add?

1. Do NOT remove a Trog Unit
2. Add any Crystals
3. Place a Control Marker

Thanks,
grant


Is this a rule change/errata, or did I miss this clarification in the rulebook, or FAQ?


This is us clarifying it.
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Graham Gass
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Follow up question: if there's 2 war party tokens to resolve in the same space and only 1 trog figure in the reserve, does a non-trog lose a guy when they walk in? I.e., do you resolve the war party tokens one at a time and therefore don't have any figures to add for the second token, or do they get resolved simultaneously and you just sort of total up the number of trogs you're supposed to add and then add as many as you can?
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Eric B
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Flame112 wrote:
Follow up question: if there's 2 war party tokens to resolve in the same space and only 1 trog figure in the reserve, does a non-trog lose a guy when they walk in? I.e., do you resolve the war party tokens one at a time and therefore don't have any figures to add for the second token, or do they get resolved simultaneously and you just sort of total up the number of trogs you're supposed to add and then add as many as you can?


It's a good question, the rule book doesn't mention if you resolve one token at a time or not. It's written in way that there will always be 0 or 1 token in a region, never more.

Rule book - Move wrote:
2. For each Region you Moved into with a Trog War Party/Nest token, reveal and resolve that token. If no Trog Units were placed in the Region as a direct result of the effect of the token (when there is no Trog Unit in the Reserve), you must immediately lose one Unit in that Region.
 
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Nathaniel Chambers
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I'd assume you resolve one at at time, but worth the clarification.
 
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Paul Ferguson
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Official FAQ part 2 on its way?
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Grant Rodiek
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If you have multiple Trog tokens and no Trogs are added, you lose 1 Unit per Trog. Remember, Trogs don't lose them.

If you have multiple, for each token you add at least one Trog? No loss. For each token you do not place at least one? Lose one.
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Grant Rodiek
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If you have multiple Trog tokens and no Trogs are added, you lose 1 Unit per Trog. Remember, Trogs don't lose them.

If you have multiple, for each token you add at least one Trog? No loss. For each token you do not place at least one? Lose one.
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Peter Mulholland
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HerrohGrant wrote:
If you have multiple Trog tokens and no Trogs are added, you lose 1 Unit per Trog. Remember, Trogs don't lose them.

If you have multiple, for each token you add at least one Trog? No loss. For each token you do not place at least one? Lose one.


Hi Grant,

Thanks for being so active on these forums!

This came up this evening so just want to check I played it right. As your above statements are worded slightly different - although probably me reading it wrong!

1) If a Trog player moves into a region with either of the Trog tokens and no other factions units you resolve the tokens in the order of your choice. If you can't place Trogs due to having none in the reserve nothing happens. (Fine with this, all makes sense).

2) If another faction moves into a region with a single or multiple of either Trog Token and no other factions units you resolve the tokens in the order of your choice (so far so good, here's the questions).

- You must fully resolve each token before moving onto the next, correct?
- If you can place at least one Trog unit for a token nothing happens, correct?
- If you cannot place any Trog units (due to there being none in the reserve), do you lose one unit per missing Trog, or one per token? (This is where I've gotten confused with your wording above).

Thanks so much! We had a great 4 player game tonight, all of us newbies.
 
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James Mathias
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PeterM2158 wrote:
HerrohGrant wrote:
If you have multiple Trog tokens and no Trogs are added, you lose 1 Unit per Trog. Remember, Trogs don't lose them.

If you have multiple, for each token you add at least one Trog? No loss. For each token you do not place at least one? Lose one.


Hi Grant,

Thanks for being so active on these forums!

This came up this evening so just want to check I played it right. As your above statements are worded slightly different - although probably me reading it wrong!

1) If a Trog player moves into a region with either of the Trog tokens and no other factions units you resolve the tokens in the order of your choice. If you can't place Trogs due to having none in the reserve nothing happens. (Fine with this, all makes sense).

2) If another faction moves into a region with a single or multiple of either Trog Token and no other factions units you resolve the tokens in the order of your choice (so far so good, here's the questions).

- You must fully resolve each token before moving onto the next, correct?
- If you can place at least one Trog unit for a token nothing happens, correct?
- If you cannot place any Trog units (due to there being none in the reserve), do you lose one unit per missing Trog, or one per token? (This is where I've gotten confused with your wording above).

Thanks so much! We had a great 4 player game tonight, all of us newbies.


It's one per token.
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