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7 Wonders Duel: Pantheon» Forums » Rules

Subject: Question about Anubi rss

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Andrea Fabris
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Hi everyone.
My first post ever for my favourite game

Just bought Pantheon and I'm (7)wondering if Anubi power means that permanent wonder's power (such as victory points and granting resources) are lost unless you rebuild the "lost" wonder.

What do you think about?

Thanks!
 
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A S
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darknight74 wrote:
Hi everyone.
My first post ever for my favourite game

Just bought Pantheon and I'm (7)wondering if Anubi power means that permanent wonder's power (such as victory points and granting resources) are lost unless you rebuild the "lost" wonder.

What do you think about?

Thanks!


You are correct. You don't lost instant effects like coins/shields/turn-agains. But you would lose points/resources.
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MavL
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Hi Andrea!

I believe you're right. The rules list the instant effects that are not lost:
Quote:
The affected player doesn’t lose the instant effects previously granted by that Wonder (shields, coins, progress tokens, constructed or discarded card, replay effect).
It is possible to rebuild this Wonder and thus apply its effects once again.

But the granted resources or victory points are not mentionned as they are not instant effects.

It makes sense to me this way. Otherwise, how would you remember to score points for a wonder without a card underneath? Or remember that a wonder provides a resource without a card underneath? And if you build the wonder again, would you get access to a second resource? Double the points on the wonder? It would be a real mess...

Edit: ninjaed by seconds...
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Andrea Fabris
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Thanks for the reply guys!
 
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Baramon
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so whats the point of Anubis other than changing turn order and making someone to loose VP? Since from what you saying If I already have Temple of Artemis built and I would use Anubis on it and rebuid it again I won't get 12 coins and extra turn again right?
 
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Graham Gass
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Baramon wrote:
so whats the point of Anubis other than changing turn order and making someone to loose VP? Since from what you saying If I already have Temple of Artemis built and I would use Anubis on it and rebuid it again I won't get 12 coins and extra turn again right?


Per the rules quote from MavL, you do get the instant effects again.
 
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Baramon
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So if I use him on mausoleum I can get another card from discard for free?
 
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R. O. Schaefer
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Baramon wrote:
So if I use him on mausoleum I can get another card from discard for free?


Yes, and I guess that's exactly the point of this god. You will almost always use him for one of your wonders. Digging through discard again or gain an extra turn once again might be quite powerful.
 
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Califax wrote:
Yes, and I guess that's exactly the point of this god. You will almost always use him for one of your wonders.


I disagree, I think using him on an opponent's wonder can often be a good move. Particularly if
- it is a wonder without instant effects (Great Lighthouse or Pyramids) and/or
- the opponent needs to pay many coins to rebuild it (because he lacks expensive resources for it) and/or
- the opponent used a card to build the wonder which you particularly want (which should often be the case) and you still have access to the discard pile (with the Mausoleum or Hades).

Califax wrote:
Digging through discard again or gain an extra turn once again might be quite powerful.


Depending on the situation it can definitely be, of course, but it is much less impressive if you consider that you need to sacrifice a turn to rebuild your wonder. If you activate Anubis on your own Mausoleum and then rebuild it, you have used up two turns plus the coins you needed to activate Anubis (plus potentially coins you needed to rebuild the Mausoleum) to construct a single card from the discard pile. This can be great if, for instance, the additional card yields your sixth different scientic symbol. Or if the Anubis turn was your only way to stall in a zugzwang situation, i. e. to force your opponent to take a card you didn't want to take at all cost. But I'd say quite often, taking two different cards minus Anubis' coin cost will have been better than constructing one from the discard.
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Baramon
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You wrote zugzwang and immediately thought that you play chess and then I saw your avatar.

I just find Anubis wording a little bit misleading and I still can't wrap my head around why you don't get second turn or coins again. Would this be overpowered yes but Anubis is total Cold Blooded SB if know at least a little about Ancient Egypt Pantheon
 
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Darador wrote:

- it is a wonder without instant effects (Great Lighthouse or Pyramids)


Now that I have thought it through (*click*), an opponent's Statue of Liberty which was built in age III would also be a good choice to target with Anubis. Such a Statue shouldn't get another instant effect when being rebuilt.
 
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Baramon
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What if Statue of Liberty was built in age II would it be possible to use Anubis on it in age III?
 
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Jeremy ZJ
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Baramon wrote:
What if Statue of Liberty was built in age II would it be possible to use Anubis on it in age III?


Yes. This would make rebuilding statue of liberty highly attractive
 
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Baramon
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What about Colosseum or Messa wonder do I get to discard opponents card again and another card from the end of the cards tree or not?
 
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Baramon wrote:
What if Statue of Liberty was built in age II would it be possible to use Anubis on it in age III?


You can use Anubis on the Statue at any point after it has been built. The owner of the Statue of Liberty will get its instant effect again if he initially built it in age II and rebuilds it in age III.
 
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Baramon wrote:
What about Colosseum or Messa wonder do I get to discard opponents card again and another card from the end of the cards tree or not?


Not quite sure what you mean by "Colosseum", probably the Circus Maximus, which lets you discard a grey card constructed by your opponent?

Then yes, you do. You get the instant effects of Circus Maximus or Messe (or any other wonder) again when rebuilding it.
 
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Baramon
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so instant effect basically everything, but coins, resources, war symbols right?
 
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Baramon wrote:
so instant effect basically everything, but coins, resources, war symbols right?


Coins and Shields are instant effects (as the rules for Anubis on p. 12 of the Pantheon rulebook explicitly mention).
The resources which the Great Lighthouse and Piraeus produce are not instant effects.
 
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Baramon
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what about -2 discount wonder it's permanent but while wonder is built or not?
 
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Jeremy ZJ
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Baramon wrote:
what about -2 discount wonder it's permanent but while wonder is built or not?


When anubis causes a wonder to be unbuilt...
All wonders: no VP if it remained unbuilt at end of age 3
Sanctuary: stops providing discount until rebuilt
Great Lighthouse: stops providing stone/clay/wood until rebuilt
Piraeus: stops providing glass/paper until rebuilt
 
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R. O. Schaefer
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Darador wrote:
Califax wrote:
Yes, and I guess that's exactly the point of this god. You will almost always use him for one of your wonders.


I disagree, I think using him on an opponent's wonder can often be a good move. Particularly if
- it is a wonder without instant effects (Great Lighthouse or Pyramids) and/or
- the opponent needs to pay many coins to rebuild it (because he lacks expensive resources for it) and/or
- the opponent used a card to build the wonder which you particularly want (which should often be the case) and you still have access to the discard pile (with the Mausoleum or Hades).


You make some good points here. I missed the "put a card that is currently under a wonder to discard pile you have access to" in particular.
I can see now that my previous statement describes Anubis' use too narrow.

Still I think, Anubis can be very strong by threatening alternative victories (through destroying and rebuilding one of your own wonders), especially when your opponent doesn't have access to Anubis himself as a counter because it is
- too expensive or
- you have divine theatre

And as we are both chess players: This threat might be stronger than execution ;-)

Also I would actively choose Ra over Anubis in many cases (when it comes to placing gods), so that Anubis is not that omnipresent in our games.

Darador wrote:

Now that I have thought it through (*click*), an opponent's Statue of Liberty which was built in age III would also be a good choice to target with Anubis. Such a Statue shouldn't get another instant effect when being rebuilt.


I just wanted to answer, that this seems to be a mediocre 5 pt. move, when I saw that this has already been done:

rubberbands wrote:
Yes this is a very reasonable conclusion. Rebuilder of Statue of Liberty will have to consider that rebuilding Statue of Liberty only gives 5vp. Opponent who used Anubis on Statue of Liberty must consider that a large part of the wonder's benefit was already gained


One additional point, though, might be to threaten to build your last wonder through unbuilding statue (as currently 7th wonder built).
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Califax wrote:

One additional point, though, might be to threaten to build your last wonder through unbuilding statue (as currently 7th wonder built).


That is not allowed:

Base game rulebook, p. 11 wrote:
As soon as either player constructs the game’s 7th Wonder, the last Wonder, which has not yet been built, is immediately returned to the box.


(Note that there is a translation error in this passage of the German rulebook compared to French original and English translation, but it is not relevant in this context.)

Pantheon rulebook, p. 16 wrote:

Q: 7 Wonders were constructed and Anubis has just been activated.
What happens to the 8th Wonder previously returned to the box?
A: The 8th Wonder remains in the box.
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R. O. Schaefer
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Thx. It was just a thought without checking the rules - but good to know.
We've never returned the 8th wonder to the box. It was just clear that it cannot be built any longer. Seems, that designers had already Anubi-like stuff in mind, when this rule evolved.
 
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