$30.00
Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

SeaFall» Forums » Rules

Subject: Is a ship's hold its hit points? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Darren Nakamura
United States
Columbus
Mississippi
flag msg tools
http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
badge
Darren@destructoid.com
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The rule book says this about damage:

SeaFall rule book, Page 10, Damage wrote:
Ships may have no more than two damage cards. If it would take a third damage card, it instead sinks. Damage takes effect immediately.


Which seems pretty clear. But some of my players have taken the following passage to mean that increasing a ship's Hold value increases the number of damage cards it can take before it sinks.

SeaFall rule book, Page 9, Hold wrote:
In later games, the hold also shows how hard it is to sink when attacked.


Is that right? Or is the "in later games" referring to whatever shows up in Rule 7? (No spoilers, please.)

We just finished Game 1 and two of the players increased Hold on one of their ships. I don't know that they would have if it turns out it doesn't let them take extra damage next game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul Howard
United Kingdom
Coventry
West Midlands
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Dexter345 wrote:
SeaFall rule book, Page 9, Hold wrote:
In later games, the hold also shows how hard it is to sink when attacked.
Is that right? Or is the "in later games" referring to whatever shows up in Rule 7? (No spoilers, please.)

If I had to guess, I would expect that the hold is the defend for a "attack a ship" endeavour rather than the amount of damage it can take. Either that or similar to the plunder value of a province site. I doubt very much it affects how much damage you can take as that's a very clear cut statement on page 10.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
j n
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
It's referring to a later rule. 3 damage (cards) will still sink a 5-hold ship.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Julius Besser
United States
Memphis
Tennessee
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The "when attacked" refers to attacking a ship by raiding it, which you can't do yet at the start of the campaign.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tyler LeBlanc
United States
Delaware Water Gap
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
It doesn't increase the amount of damage cards they can get, but it does make the ships harder to sink in later games. So, it is more of their defence not their HP.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
JR Honeycutt
United States
Texas
flag msg tools
designer
publisher
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dexter345 wrote:
The rule book says this about damage:

SeaFall rule book, Page 10, Damage wrote:
Ships may have no more than two damage cards. If it would take a third damage card, it instead sinks. Damage takes effect immediately.


Which seems pretty clear. But some of my players have taken the following passage to mean that increasing a ship's Hold value increases the number of damage cards it can take before it sinks.

SeaFall rule book, Page 9, Hold wrote:
In later games, the hold also shows how hard it is to sink when attacked.


Is that right? Or is the "in later games" referring to whatever shows up in Rule 7? (No spoilers, please.)

We just finished Game 1 and two of the players increased Hold on one of their ships. I don't know that they would have if it turns out it doesn't let them take extra damage next game.


To answer this question requires spoilers, so in the interest of being as least spoiler-y as possible, I'll just say that your hold is related to how your ship performs in combat later in the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Liddle
United States
Sandpoint
Idaho
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The page 9 bit would have been better written as
Spoiler (click to reveal)
"In later games, hold also reflects the likelihood of damaging attackers while defending."
(only slightly spoilery)
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Becq Starforged
United States
Cerritos
California
flag msg tools
badge
mbmbmbmbmb
razordaze wrote:
The page 9 bit would have been better written as
Spoiler (click to reveal)
"In later games, hold also reflects the likelihood of damaging attackers while defending."
(only slightly spoilery)

Of course, when you write it that way, it also makes the rule seem to make less sense.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
The defender's Raid or Sails decreases the chance that the defending ship will take damage, while the defender's Hold increases the likelihood that attacker will take damage...? It seems to me that it should be the opposite. At least for Raid and Hold; I could see Sail as influencing either (or both). Off-hand, I'm thinking that you should subtract dice based on Hold or Sail (the defender is hard to damage because of bulk or maneuverability), then use Raid for the difficulty (the more guns the defender has, the more damage the attacker takes unless he manages to dominate the fight).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
j n
United States
Georgia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Yeah...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Liddle
United States
Sandpoint
Idaho
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I agree, but considering that the game uses terms of "Garrison" and "Defense," everywhere else, then I think the current mapping makes more sense.

I can't think of a good thematic apology for this though. It makes me wonder if Garrison and Defense used different mechanics in at the time names were chosen during development.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Welsher
United States
Bellevue
Nebraska
flag msg tools
mb
Think of Defense as "How much effort is required to plunder this site safely" (aka, number of successes required to not take damage). Garrison is "amount that this site will push back to prevent that effort" (aka reduced dice).

The damage taken by the attacking party isn't necessarily inflicted by the defender directly, but represents the losses taken by the attacker in an effort to achieve their objective without the resources necessary to do so safely (because they just aren't good enough, or because the site is resisting).

In that context, the rules Becq referenced make thematic sense to me...
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Hold pretty much represents the size of a ship. A bigger ship means more effort required to plunder.

To fight back, a ship can either run away (Sail) or fight back (Raid), either one making it harder for the attacker to accomplish their goals. They may take damage from the defender's cannons, or the crew might have to push harder/faster than safety allows to catch up, etc...

It's more abstract, but I think it fits better with how Defense and Garrison work on islands/provinces.

Also, keep in mind that you aren't necessarily trying to damage the target; you could also be trying to steal goods.

Example: You upgrade your "big" ship to hold a bunch more cargo. (Hold: 6, Raid: 3, Sail: 2). You'd remove 3 die from your attacker. They are likely to take some damage raiding this big, juicy target, but they're likely to come away with something out of it. Risk/reward makes sense.

If Defense/Garrison were swapped, you'd remove 6 die. That means they need 7 die to even have a shot at 1 success. That seems crazy for a ship that has spent 4 points on "economics" (carrying more) and nothing on defense (guns) or speed (sail).

3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.