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Rocambole Shop
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May be a dumb question but I didn't see anything related to this:

On some items/ennemies the bonus provided is a colored dice with the reroll symbol (Battle Axe for example) while some have not the reroll symbol (Dagger for example).
Does this mean that the provided bonus dice can be rerolled for these and not for the others?

Thanks for your insight.
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Jimmy Brazelton
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When it has the arrow on the die it means that you get one free reroll. After the first initial free reroll you can use gems to reroll that or any other die.
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Andi Anonymous
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Rocambole wrote:
May be a dumb question but I didn't see anything related to this:

On some items/ennemies the bonus provided is a colored dice with the reroll symbol (Battle Axe for example) while some have not the reroll symbol (Dagger for example).
Does this mean that the provided bonus dice can be rerolled for these and not for the others?

Thanks for your insight.


You can reroll one die of this color once.

Lets say Conan uses 2 gems for melee, so he gets 2 red dice and an additional red die for the battle axe.
After the roll you can reroll any red die for free once.
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Jimmy Brazelton
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What's also important to remember that I think a lot of people are not realizing is why the rules specifically state to roll the die for armor separately from the dice you use if you choose to guard. True, you add both together in the end to come up with the total defense value, but if your shield gives you a free reroll of an orange die when you guard and your chain mail gives you an orange die for armor, you would only be able to roll the orange die from the shield for free. You wouldn't be able to choose either of the orange dice. I think a lot of people are just rolling them all together and then choosing which die to reroll for free.
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Rocambole Shop
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Thanks, That's what I thought but wasn't sure..
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Stephan Beal
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aubaine wrote:
What's also important to remember that I think a lot of people are not realizing is why the rules specifically state to roll the die for armor separately from the dice you use if you choose to guard. True, you add both together in the end to come up with the total defense value, but if your shield gives you a free reroll of an orange die when you guard and your chain mail gives you an orange die for armor, you would only be able to roll the orange die from the shield for free. You wouldn't be able to choose either of the orange dice. I think a lot of people are just rolling them all together and then choosing which die to reroll for free.


Citation needed, i think.

The rules say, on page 10:

Quote:
A hero can perform Reroll actions after rolling dice but before finalizing the results of the roll.
...
Some die icons show an arrow on them. Once after a player rolls a die indicated by one of these icons, the player may reroll one die of the matching type without performing a Reroll action.


(Emphasis added.)

It's been clarified in other threads that having, e.g. 4 dice of a given color, only one of which provides a free reroll, allows the player to reroll any single one of those dice one time using the free reroll.
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Jimmy Brazelton
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sgbeal wrote:


Citation needed, i think.

The rules say, on page 10:

Quote:
A hero can perform Reroll actions after rolling dice but before finalizing the results of the roll.
...
Some die icons show an arrow on them. Once after a player rolls a die indicated by one of these icons, the player may reroll one die of the matching type without performing a Reroll action.


(Emphasis added.)

It's been clarified in other threads that having, e.g. 4 dice of a given color, only one of which provides a free reroll, allows the player to reroll any single one of those dice one time using the free reroll.


Really? Then what is the point of rolling the armor die separately? I can think of no other reason why it would be necessary to separate these dice as it states in the rules?
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Stephan Beal
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aubaine wrote:
sgbeal wrote:


Citation needed, i think.

The rules say, on page 10:

Quote:
A hero can perform Reroll actions after rolling dice but before finalizing the results of the roll.
...
Some die icons show an arrow on them. Once after a player rolls a die indicated by one of these icons, the player may reroll one die of the matching type without performing a Reroll action.


(Emphasis added.)

It's been clarified in other threads that having, e.g. 4 dice of a given color, only one of which provides a free reroll, allows the player to reroll any single one of those dice one time using the free reroll.


Really? Then what is the point of rolling the armor die separately? I can think of no other reason why it would be necessary to separate these dice as it states in the rules?


That's why i said citation needed - i don't see any reference to having to roll armor separately.
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Andi Anonymous
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aubaine wrote:
sgbeal wrote:


Citation needed, i think.

The rules say, on page 10:

Quote:
A hero can perform Reroll actions after rolling dice but before finalizing the results of the roll.
...
Some die icons show an arrow on them. Once after a player rolls a die indicated by one of these icons, the player may reroll one die of the matching type without performing a Reroll action.


(Emphasis added.)

It's been clarified in other threads that having, e.g. 4 dice of a given color, only one of which provides a free reroll, allows the player to reroll any single one of those dice one time using the free reroll.


Really? Then what is the point of rolling the armor die separately? I can think of no other reason why it would be necessary to separate these dice as it states in the rules?


You separate them because these are two seperate steps in blocking damage.

After the guard roll you have to decide either do some rerolls or hope the armor die would block the remaining damage.

If you roll all dice at once you see immediately what is blocked and don't do unnecessary rerolls.


Page 7
Guard
"... The hero then chooses one of their equipment cards that has an armor bonus and rolls the die indicated on the card separately."
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Stephan Beal
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sgbeal wrote:
That's why i said citation needed - i don't see any reference to having to roll armor separately.


Indeed, here it is: page 7:

Quote:
The hero then chooses one of their equipment cards that has an armor bonus and rolls the die indicated separately. ... The hero then determines the defense power by adding the number of symbols shown on the other dice to their total armor value.


Intriguing. i can't for the life of me imagine why there should be that one single case where dice are handled in two "groups".
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Jimmy Brazelton
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Abbath wrote:
You separate them because these are two seperate steps in blocking damage.

After the guard roll you have to decide either do some rerolls or hope the armor die would block the remaining damage.

If you roll all dice at once you see immediately what is blocked and don't do unnecessary rerolls.


I'm not sure I understand. Wouldn't rolling the guard dice first, then deciding to spend gems on rerolls, then rolling the armor dice mean MORE unnecessary rerolls? If you just roll them all together you can see what the results are, resolve any free rerolls, then spend gems to reroll if you want. I still don't see a reason to roll them separately if the free rerolls aren't dice-specific.

sgbeal wrote:
Indeed, here it is: page 7:


Yeah, sorry, didn't have the rulebook in front of me, but I distinctly remembered it.

sgbeal wrote:
Intriguing. i can't for the life of me imagine why there should be that one single case where dice are handled in two "groups".


Yeah, me either. That's why I thought for sure that what I originally said had to be true. Maybe just another translation issue? I haven't checked the French version to see what it says.
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Andi Anonymous
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Here is an example

Conan (shield (YD) and leather armor (OD)) suffers 5 damage.

He put 2 gems on guard, so 2 orange dice plus 1 orange die for the shield.

Results are blank, 1 and 2. Blocking only 3 damage.
Now the hero gets the choice to buy a reroll or hope for a very good free armor roll.
The blank orange dice gets rerolled for 1 gem resulting in a 2.

Finally the leather armor die gets rolled and results immedidately in a lucky 2. So a total of 7 damage is blocked.

In hindsight the reroll was unnecessary.


If all dice are rolled at once the player doesn't have to decide between buying reroll and free armor roll.
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Jimmy Brazelton
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Abbath wrote:
Here is an example

Conan (shield (YD) and leather armor (OD)) suffers 5 damage.

He put 2 gems on guard, so 2 orange dice plus 1 orange die for the shield.

Results are blank, 1 and 2. Blocking only 3 damage.
Now the hero gets the choice to buy a reroll or hope for a very good free armor roll.
The blank orange dice gets rerolled for 1 gem resulting in a 2.

Finally the leather armor die gets rolled and results immedidately in a lucky 2. So a total of 7 damage is blocked.

In hindsight the reroll was unnecessary.


If all dice are rolled at once the player doesn't have to decide between buying reroll and free armor roll.


But the problem is that the rules aren't written that way. Here is what the English rules say:

Quote:
To perform a Guard action, the hero assigns one or more gems from their Reserve zone to their Guard space. The hero may then choose one of their equipment cards that has a Guard bonus to defend with, such as a weapon orshield. A hero can choose only a shield when defending against a spell, ranged, or area attack. If the hero does not choose an equipment card to defend with, the hero is considered to be dodging. Otherwise, the hero is considered to be parrying. For each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Guard space, plus the dice indicated on the chosen equipment card.

The hero then chooses one of their equipment cards that has an armor bonus and rolls the die indicated on the card separately. After resolving any rerolls, the hero adds the number of symbols shown on that die to their armor value for this defense. (A hero’s armor value normally starts at 0, though some effects can adjust this value.) The hero then determines the defense power by adding the number of symbols shown on the other dice to their total armor value.


According to this, rerolls are done AFTER both guard dice and armor dice are rolled. Otherwise, it would make reference to rerolls in the first paragraph, before armor dice are rolled.
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Rocambole Shop
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sgbeal wrote:
[q="aubaine"]

The rules say, on page 10:

Quote:
A hero can perform Reroll actions after rolling dice but before finalizing the results of the roll.
...
Some die icons show an arrow on them. Once after a player rolls a die indicated by one of these icons, the player may reroll one die of the matching type without performing a Reroll action.


(Emphasis added.)


Really? I should recheck my rulebook.. It is such a mess not explaining once and for all which icon is what.
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Stephan Beal
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aubaine wrote:

But the problem is that the rules aren't written that way. Here is what the English rules say:

Quote:
...
The hero then chooses one of their equipment cards that has an armor bonus and rolls the die indicated on the card separately. After resolving any rerolls, the hero adds the number of symbols shown on that die to their armor value for this defense. (A hero’s armor value normally starts at 0, though some effects can adjust this value.) The hero then determines the defense power by adding the number of symbols shown on the other dice to their total armor value.


According to this, rerolls are done AFTER both guard dice and armor dice are rolled. Otherwise, it would make reference to rerolls in the first paragraph, before armor dice are rolled.


Unfortunately, "after resolving any rerolls" is ambiguous here. It could apply to just the Armor Bonus or to the whole thing. The final text, however, implies that "after resolving rerolls" truly only applies to the armor:

Quote:
The hero then determines the defense power by adding the number of symbols shown on the other dice to their total armor value.


Where "the other dice" are those from the first paragraph you quoted.

Upon re-re-reading, i my current interpretation is that they do indeed need to be rolled as two separate "incidents." That may be wrong, but i'll go with that for the time being.
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Andi Anonymous
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aubaine wrote:
Abbath wrote:
Here is an example

Conan (shield (YD) and leather armor (OD)) suffers 5 damage.

He put 2 gems on guard, so 2 orange dice plus 1 orange die for the shield.

Results are blank, 1 and 2. Blocking only 3 damage.
Now the hero gets the choice to buy a reroll or hope for a very good free armor roll.
The blank orange dice gets rerolled for 1 gem resulting in a 2.

Finally the leather armor die gets rolled and results immedidately in a lucky 2. So a total of 7 damage is blocked.

In hindsight the reroll was unnecessary.


If all dice are rolled at once the player doesn't have to decide between buying reroll and free armor roll.


But the problem is that the rules aren't written that way. Here is what the English rules say:

Quote:
To perform a Guard action, the hero assigns one or more gems from their Reserve zone to their Guard space. The hero may then choose one of their equipment cards that has a Guard bonus to defend with, such as a weapon orshield. A hero can choose only a shield when defending against a spell, ranged, or area attack. If the hero does not choose an equipment card to defend with, the hero is considered to be dodging. Otherwise, the hero is considered to be parrying. For each gem assigned, the hero rolls one die of the type indicated on their Guard space, plus the dice indicated on the chosen equipment card.

The hero then chooses one of their equipment cards that has an armor bonus and rolls the die indicated on the card separately. After resolving any rerolls, the hero adds the number of symbols shown on that die to their armor value for this defense. (A hero’s armor value normally starts at 0, though some effects can adjust this value.) The hero then determines the defense power by adding the number of symbols shown on the other dice to their total armor value.


According to this, rerolls are done AFTER both guard dice and armor dice are rolled. Otherwise, it would make reference to rerolls in the first paragraph, before armor dice are rolled.


Okay. You are right.

I was confused because of the armor artikel on page 8. It reads as if that was a total second step after the guard step. Including its own rerolls.

If I starting think about it, we always played it as 2 steps but it felt out of line because it slowed down the gameplay. Also the armor was pretty weak if rolled separately.

I start to believe it is rolled at once.
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Stephan Beal
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Rocambole wrote:
sgbeal wrote:


The rules say, on page 10:

Quote:
A hero can perform Reroll actions after rolling dice but before finalizing the results of the roll.
...
Some die icons show an arrow on them. Once after a player rolls a die indicated by one of these icons, the player may reroll one die of the matching type without performing a Reroll action.


(Emphasis added.)


Really? I should recheck my rulebook.. It is such a mess not explaining once and for all which icon is what.


There are two different issues here, which i unfortunately mixed up into one:

a) when rerolling a group of dice, for each reroll symbol, you can re-roll any single one of the dice of the same color.

b) apparently, however, Guarding and Armor are rolled separately (according to pg 7), so (my currently interpretation is) that a reroll provided by Guard dice does not apply to Armor dice because Armor are rolled in a separate step.

(B) is what Aubaine was originally claiming, which i rejected because i was thinking only in terms of (A), but i have since come around to agree with him.
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Jimmy Brazelton
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sgbeal wrote:

There are two different issues here, which i unfortunately mixed up into one:

a) when rerolling a group of dice, for each reroll symbol, you can re-roll any single one of the dice of the same color.

b) apparently, however, Guarding and Armor are rolled separately (according to pg 7), so (my currently interpretation is) that a reroll provided by Guard dice does not apply to Armor dice because Armor are rolled in a separate step.

(B) is what Aubaine was originally claiming, which i rejected because i was thinking only in terms of (A), but i have since come around to agree with him.


Yes, I'm starting to think that your interpretation is correct. Would be nice to get an official ruling on it at some point, but not really a huge deal.

And I think my original claim was actually wrong - I thought that a free reroll was tied to a specific die, which I now realize is incorrect. I also thought that all rerolls (free and paid) are resolved at the end of the guard and armor sequence as a whole, but I think Andi's original thoughts (and your interpretation) are now more accurate. I do share the concerns that Andi just stated about it slowing down gameplay though since everything else is so quick and seamless.
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Stephan Beal
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aubaine wrote:
I do share the concerns that Andi just stated about it slowing down gameplay though since everything else is so quick and seamless.


That's exactly what surprises me about this split-up - it seems to break one fluid, intuitive action into two, which then merges the results as a final step. That seems horribly out of place here. Hopefully BadKam (one of the Monolith team) will eventually see this and clue us in to the proper interpretation.
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K. Hansen
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As I understand the french rules, there is no split-up. One rolls the dice for both guard and armor together and at the same time.
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Andi Anonymous
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Just checked the french rulebook and put it into the google translator.

Nothing about armor in the guard section, the whole armor passage in guard section is missing.
Nothing about rerolls in the guard and armor section, maybe because rerolls got their own section.
Armor is described as passive defence, guard as active defence. So it seems to be managed differently.


http://www.monolithedition.com/download/rules/CONAN_barbaria...
Is this the up-to-date rulebook? The english rulebook is definitely not a translation of the same version.
 
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Justin Colm
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Can you use items to guard even if you chose not to 'perform a Guard action'?

Ie. if Belit chooses not to assign any gems to her Guard Action could she still use her Tribal shield (orange die plus a reroll)? Or is the Tribal Shield only an option if she assigned at least one gem to her Guard Action?
 
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Stephan Beal
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High Flying Bird wrote:
Can you use items to guard even if you chose not to 'perform a Guard action'?

Ie. if Belit chooses not to assign any gems to her Guard Action could she still use her Tribal shield (orange die plus a reroll)? Or is the Tribal Shield only an option if she assigned at least one gem to her Guard Action?


Items with a Guard icon are only usable when actively guarding. Items with an Armor icon (helmet) provide passive defense at all times.

Edit: that said, many (or all?) of the OL tiles from the add-on sets got incorrectly printed the Guard icon instead of Armor.
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Justin Colm
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sgbeal wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:
Can you use items to guard even if you chose not to 'perform a Guard action'?

Ie. if Belit chooses not to assign any gems to her Guard Action could she still use her Tribal shield (orange die plus a reroll)? Or is the Tribal Shield only an option if she assigned at least one gem to her Guard Action?


Items with a Guard icon are only usable when actively guarding. Items with an Armor icon (helmet) provide passive defense at all times.

Edit: that said, many (or all?) of the OL tiles from the add-on sets got incorrectly printed the Guard icon instead of Armor.


Thanks for the clear information and the warning about the misprintings! That's going to be a real pain the arse...
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Stephan Beal
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High Flying Bird wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
Edit: that said, many (or all?) of the OL tiles from the add-on sets got incorrectly printed the Guard icon instead of Armor.


Thanks for the clear information and the warning about the misprintings! That's going to be a real pain the arse...


It "shouldn't" be so bad because... Guarding is something the OL can actively actively do for any OL units (independent of their armor), as well as something the Heroes can actively do. OL Minions and Leaders do not have a separate Guard action, so any Guard icons on those tiles can safely be mentally translated as Armor (which is what they should have been).

Clarification: the icon itself is actually a shield. i just confirmed that my Demon of the Earth (add-on) tile has the Shield icon. It should be an Armor icon.

("Guarding" might not be the right word here. Some contexts use "Dodge" instead. Page 7 of the Heroes' Book calls it Guarding, though.)
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