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Subject: The other monsters REALLY ADD the game? rss

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André Silveira
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I will get this piece of art on the next Kickstarter. However I'm still thinking about getting new monsters. As far as I know, the base game comes with 7 monsters and each new one costs nearly 100 bucks. For me that's a LOT of cash so... is it worth it? Do they really add to the game?
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Stuart Martyn
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Most are cheaper than $100 and I assume that KS prices will be lower (though obviously I can't promise this).

So it's important to split the monsters from the game into two types; quarries and nemeses. Most years you hunt a quarry, with both the monster and the level of the monster being entirely your choice, so you don't have to bite off more you can chew, or you can play it overly safe to train up some newbies, or you can take the plunge on a nasty, high risk/reward monster.

Nemeses turn up every so often and you get less choice. They vary (and saying how will spoil you) but suffice it to say that they will ruin your day.

The base game has three quarries, three nemeses and a final boss.

Some expansions (Slenderman, Manhunter, Lion Knight) add new Nemeses that either replace existing nemeses or add a new nemesis to the campaign (but come with rewards to offset the extra punishment this entails). Without spoiling, all of them change the campaign a lot, which does help with replayability - played the core game? Now try it with slenderman.

Others add new quarries which you hunt and craft gear from. IMO the core game needs another quarry or two for variety, even though hunting a monster repeatedly to craft gear from it is a core part of the game. Most add to a campaign while one replaces a monster from it... The gear can really change things up, to be honest, and again it helps replayability to switch up what monsters you're facing. An expansion with, say, an awesome bow will likely lead to a more bow-heavy settlement, while one with an armour set that favours shields might lead to you crafting more of those. Some of the fights are really weird and fun and I've always found learning how a monster fights - and how to beat it - a fun core part of KDM that expansions help with once you've cracked the base game monsters. That said, I haven't cracked one of the base game nemeses at all...

Notably, the two most expensive expansions (Sunstalker and Dragon King) add a complete variant campaign with different nemeses as well as a huge, huntable monster for other campaigns. You could argue they've actually got by far the best value for money - a new quarry and an awesome new campaign with tons of unique gear, mechanics and its own narrative.

Some expansions are generally considered better than others, while others are in poor regard. The expansion that isn't really a nemesis or a quarry (the Nightmare Tree) is widely considered the worst.

I think expansions are generally worth it, but don't get 'em all. Limit yourself to 1-3 expansions. Canvass opinion as to which are the best/what sounds cool to you while avoiding precise spoilers... unless all the expansions in the KS are new and hence unknown quantities! If money is a concern, well, do you need to eat every day?
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André Silveira
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Hahahahah well, that's more of an answer that I was expecting! Thanks VERY MUCH because you went through the center of my doubt.
I am going to marry next year, so money is kind of a problem. However, this is the last game (hahahaha) that I'll get this year so I'm kind of prepared to spend a lot on it.
That said, I understood the difference between the monsters. One kind you hunt over and over and over to grind fuel to the camp and to equipments. So you would like variety but you couldn't have 12 kinds because you would never be able to assemble the right quantities of items. Right?
And the other kind is the supreme boss that'll want you killed right away, and you won't have resources to fight it every year.
There is also a third kind of monsters that doesn't add either way, so stay away from it.

That said, THANK YOU. I will be more assertive on kickstarter now. Probably buy 2 quarries and 1 nemesis plus the dragon (because dragon, you know).

Can't wait!
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Lonny x
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laucion wrote:

I am going to marry next year,


Go all in while you can
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Stuart Martyn
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laucion wrote:

That said, I understood the difference between the monsters. One kind you hunt over and over and over to grind fuel to the camp and to equipments. So you would like variety but you couldn't have 12 kinds because you would never be able to assemble the right quantities of items. Right?


Precisely, though I should note each level of monster is different. Though generally it is just a bump in difficulty, sometimes higher levels (due to new traits) fight very differently to lower levels.

The dragon is a quarry for the base game (and comes with an entire variant campaign), if that helps your wallet at all.

 
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Stuart Martyn
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Styfen wrote:
With the addition of Flower Knight if you find the game is too difficult and you need an OP ranged weapon.


Not to mention a way to bring back a dead favourite or two, a relatively easy to unlock (and awesome) secret fighting art, a way to have babies without rolling for intimacy and the madness that is the Acanthus Doctor...

It's a really fun fight, though, very memorable and the model is one of the best in the range. Certainly the prettiest.
 
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André Silveira
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malkaven wrote:
laucion wrote:

I am going to marry next year,


Go all in while you can


Not sure if good or bad advice. Hahaha
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André Silveira
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TheEremite wrote:
laucion wrote:

That said, I understood the difference between the monsters. One kind you hunt over and over and over to grind fuel to the camp and to equipments. So you would like variety but you couldn't have 12 kinds because you would never be able to assemble the right quantities of items. Right?


Precisely, though I should note each level of monster is different. Though generally it is just a bump in difficulty, sometimes higher levels (due to new traits) fight very differently to lower levels.

The dragon is a quarry for the base game (and comes with an entire variant campaign), if that helps your wallet at all.



Good to know! Because you know. Dragon...

I'm excited for the game though a little afraid of the delivery time.
 
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André Silveira
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Styfen wrote:
laucion wrote:
So you would like variety but you couldn't have 12 kinds because you would never be able to assemble the right quantities of items. Right?

First up having the variety allows you to vary new games and mix in more stuff. But also there are other bonuses.

Certain monsters need only to be hunted a couple of times (Flower Knight), some have good synergies with other monsters Gorm + White Lion, Dung Beetle Knight + Sunstalker etc etc and so on.

Then there is the Dragon King, which is a lousy quarry, but has a great, fun impact on the storyline of any campaign where it is a quarry and provides the most fun campaign out of all of them.

If you want a short list of my recommendation of quarries its:

Gorm
Dung Beetle Knight
Sunstalker
Dragon King

in that order. With the addition of Flower Knight if you find the game is too difficult and you need an OP ranged weapon.


Yea! I wouldn't play with 12 in the same game but looking at the 50+ campaign hours, I'm not sure I would repeat it very often.

However good to know the combos and the affinity order. I'll keep that in mind on the kickstarter. Does the game has a price tag yet?
 
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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If you think you'll beat the whole 50+ hours campaign on the first run, you're in for a surprise
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that Matt
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ksiazekrzysztof wrote:
If you think you'll beat the whole 50+ hours campaign on the first run, you're in for a surprise

Yeah this ain't Pandemic Legacy.
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André Silveira
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ksiazekrzysztof wrote:
If you think you'll beat the whole 50+ hours campaign on the first run, you're in for a surprise


Ok. NOW I want this game.
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Dash T
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Stuart covers all the details. Here is my opinion

1. Dont get married unless your wife agrees to join your campaign
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James Shaw
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DashT wrote:
Stuart covers all the details. Here is my opinion

1. Dont get married unless your wife agrees to join your campaign


Or as part of your marriage agreement, have her allow you buy anything KdM and at least 6 hours a week playing it. Negotiating for either after marriage will cost you dearly, speaking from experience. ninja
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David Tolin
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ksiazekrzysztof wrote:
If you think you'll beat the whole 50+ hours campaign on the first run, you're in for a surprise


Is it really so rare? Serious question (we're in our first campaign, at LY16, and winning seems doable [with the caveat that we know nothing about the Watcher] {with the additional caveat that I've heard he's not very difficult}).
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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it is actually doable, but usually the first run you get beaten very badly by everything, if you go it blind. common mistakes are:
- you get flattened by every new monster and monster level
- you are always beaten by all nemeses, and you also are dramatically unprepared for the defeat aftermath of each one
- poor principle choices: you underestimate what means getting skull eaters and bone witches indefinitely
- subpar gear: you experiment and try all the cool looking ones, and you usually never get accessories.
- focus on getting the sets of every quarry: that way, you will get everything late, and you won't know if what you get fits your playstyle.

difficulty is lowered dramatically when you get to know how it works.

If you have enough population and you can hunt a L2 very easily and you can win with a L3, you can probably beat the watcher. If you have some equipment from early game (the least concealable spoiler ever), the fight is a lot easier. If you take the challenge as soon as it appears, you can probably beat it badly.
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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Also depends on how you play it. For me this is a game of exploration and learning as well, so we started to play (and try to play) totally spoiler free. I avoid reading strategies and spoilers, so it surely will take longer for us to beat the game eventually (still didn't make it till LY25), as we're learning the hard way, but man, the surprises and stories we get...
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André Silveira
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jshtnt wrote:
DashT wrote:
Stuart covers all the details. Here is my opinion

1. Dont get married unless your wife agrees to join your campaign


Or as part of your marriage agreement, have her allow you buy anything KdM and at least 6 hours a week playing it. Negotiating for either after marriage will cost you dearly, speaking from experience. ninja


Well I got my as** handed to me yesterday on clash of cultures AND on agricola by my wife. Also we have played 2 player campaign on imperial assault and pandemic legacy, so she's a gamer. If the game's good, she'll play. =)
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David Tolin
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ksiazekrzysztof wrote:
Also depends on how you play it. For me this is a game of exploration and learning as well, so we started to play (and try to play) totally spoiler free. I avoid reading strategies and spoilers, so it surely will take longer for us to beat the game eventually (still didn't make it till LY25), as we're learning the hard way, but man, the surprises and stories we get...


Yeah, we're the same way. We don't research anything, and we don't look ahead at monsters/buildings/gear, etc. (though we do check out gear once we've unlocked the associated building and are able to craft it). We also use the kdm-manager online, so we don't really even look ahead to see what timeline events are coming. Everything is a surprise, and it's great.

I think maybe we've just gotten lucky. We've generally kept population pretty high, and we've had few big setbacks. We also spend an insane out of time in our settlement phases, planning and mapping out the most efficient choices. I think we may have also inadvertently made the game a bit easier than it could have been, due to the way our events shook out. Just as we were ready to ditch the WL and try other quarry, we had a bad string of events that killed most of our experienced survivors and destroyed a good portion of our best gear. At that point, we decided to double down on the white lion to try to recoup our losses. As a result, we've hunted that damn lion to death. In LY16, we've only fought the antelope twice and the phoenix once. If we hadn't hit that big setback, we probably would have diversified more and explored a lot of different avenues... and that might have changed things a lot.

I still think the game is plenty difficult (we've only managed to defeat one nemesis, and a LVL 2 white lion is barely comfortable), but I'm secretly hoping that the difficulty ramps up before the end. I'll be somewhat dismayed if we beat the campaign on our very first try.
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Krzysztof RabidBlackDog
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Our group, we even don't look at the gear till we make it. Learning the hard way.
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Drew Olds
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laucion wrote:
jshtnt wrote:
DashT wrote:
Stuart covers all the details. Here is my opinion

1. Dont get married unless your wife agrees to join your campaign


Or as part of your marriage agreement, have her allow you buy anything KdM and at least 6 hours a week playing it. Negotiating for either after marriage will cost you dearly, speaking from experience. ninja


Well I got my as** handed to me yesterday on clash of cultures AND on agricola by my wife. Also we have played 2 player campaign on imperial assault and pandemic legacy, so she's a gamer. If the game's good, she'll play. =)


It is always good to know that geeks have found one another.
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