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Fabled Fruit» Forums » Rules

Subject: Location 28 Exchange Fruit Tokens rss

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Duchess of Erat
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What happens if only one player has a fruit token?

Can I swap no fruit token for the fruit token? It does say what happens if noone has a token, but not what happens if only one player has one.
 
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Friedemann Friese
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english rule: "If neither you nor any other player have such a token, take 1 fruit token from the pool"

That means if you have no token or nobody else has. If you have no token, take one. If nobody else has one, take one.

I'm glad it is that clear in the rules.

Ooops, my english is not as good as I hoped it is...
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Russ Williams
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friedemann wrote:
english rule: "If neither you nor any other player have such a token, take 1 fruit token from the pool"

That means if you have no token or nobody else has. If you have no token, take one. If nobody else has one, take one.

I'm glad it is that clear in the rules. Thanks Henning.

FWIW like the original poster, I understand that quoted sentence with "neither...nor..." to mean "if you have no such token and if all your opponents have no such a token", that is "if nobody has a token".

You seem to be saying that "Neither X nor Y" means "(not X) OR (not Y)".

But "Neither X nor Y" means "(not X) AND (not Y)".

E.g.
used for showing that something is not true of two or more people, things, actions, qualities, or ideas

Neither his son nor his daughter were at the funeral.
Ron’s neither as young nor as fit as the other members of the team.
The president spoke neither for nor against economic reform.
I’m sorry but I can neither confirm nor deny the allegation.


Or
Neither he nor I will be there.


"Neither he nor I will be there" means that he won't be there and I won't be there.

It does not allow the possibility that he will be there or that I will be there.


To put it another way: "nor" works as a conjunction (and) of negative subparts, not a disjunction (or).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conjunction_%28grammar%29

---

Instead of "If neither you nor any other player have such a token, take 1 fruit token from the pool", something like "If you don't have such a token or if no opponent has such a token, then..." seems more grammatically correct and clearer.
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David desJardins
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friedemann wrote:
english rule: "If neither you nor any other player have such a token, take 1 fruit token from the pool"

That means if you have no token or nobody else has.


No, that's not what it means in English. It means that you don't have such a token AND no other player does either. Looks like a translation error?
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Duchess of Erat
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Thanks for clarifying, I didn't get that from the rules, I understood it the way the others said because of the 'nor'.
 
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Evil Brother
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Looks like a translation error?

I agree, unless the german text is wrong too. I am wondering what the german text is (I am unable to find it online). Could someone provide it?

 
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Friedemann Friese
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Evil Brother wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
Looks like a translation error?

I agree, unless the german text is wrong too. I am wondering what the german text is (I am unable to find it online). Could someone provide it?



german text: "Falls du keines hast oder kein Spieler anderer eines hat,..."

rough translation:

"If you do have none or no other player has one,..."

Just edit the original post. I don't know where the "Spieler" game from, but sometimes Spieler just appear....
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Evil Brother
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friedemann wrote:
german text: "Falls du keines hast oder kein Spieler anderer eines hat,..."

With the german text I would have gotten the correct result (although I suspect that the order of "Spieler" and "anderer" is reversed). Which is kinda funny (to me), because we decided to get the english version because we thought it would be clearer (for most people we play with english is easier than german).

Do you know whether the german version of the glossary is going to be online at some point? (This would have made it possible for us to take a look at the original german text.)
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Friedemann Friese
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Evil Brother wrote:
friedemann wrote:
german text: "Falls du keines hast oder kein Spieler anderer eines hat,..."

With the german text I would have gotten the correct result (although I suspect that the order of "Spieler" and "anderer" is reversed). Which is kinda funny (to me), because we decided to get the english version because we thought it would be clearer (for most people we play with english is easier than german).

Do you know whether the german version of the glossary is going to be online at some point? (This would have made it possible for us to take a look at the original german text.)


Sorry I have to edit my text "Spieler" is to much and not in the rules...
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Brian M
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OK, so I think from this discussion that the card as written in English is incorrect, and it should be:

"If either you do not have a token or no other player has a token, take a fruit token from the supply instead."

Is that right?
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Russ Williams
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StormKnight wrote:
OK, so I think from this discussion that the card as written in English is incorrect, and it should be:

"If either you do not have a token or no other player has a token, take a fruit token from the supply instead."

Is that right?


"Either" suggests "exclusive or", i.e. that exactly one of the two subconditions must be true, and it's not possible for both to be true. (So if you have no token AND no other player has a token, then the precondition is false, and so you do not take a fruit token from the supply instead... but then it's unclear what you should do in case nobody has a token.)

(Cf https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_or )

I understood it to be rather "inclusive or":

"If you do not have a token or no other player has a token, then take a fruit token from the supply instead."
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