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Subject: Are other people interested in a 3rd party tray system? rss

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Richard Sampson
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Okay so I know a lot of people are in love with the insert, but let's have some real talk here. It is super nice looking and it has a perfect place for everything, but it is seriously a case of form over function. It's is far from terrible, but it has several problems. So much so, that I would really like to see some 3rd parties come up with trays like Broken Token, go7, Meeple Realty, etc (and yes I know Game Trayz is a 3rd party insert maker).

Things I would like to see in a insert for this game:

- Better support for sleeves.
- Collective minion storage so take down doesn't take so long. The universal slots are nice, but it still takes forever to put them back and get them turned the right way.
- Minion storage on the bottom. Requiring all of these huge trays to come out, even if you don't need the minions, to set up the game is annoying. This is why people hate it when boards are stored on the bottom.
- Trays that don't awkwardly rub together. I don't know if others have this issue, but getting trays out and putting them back results in a lot of scraping, especially near the large box and between the minion and mech trays. It really feels like I might break a tray, and their floppiness doesn't help.
- Trays that fit together more easily. Similar to the point above, but I have had a lot of trouble getting the part above the hourglass to fit right. I keep turning it, but I still feel like it is raised and not quite right.
- Contained storage for all the parts. My bottom level minions were all over the place when I opened the box. I don't mind the rubbing together, but I do want them contained so they aren't flying around.

Don't get me wrong. I appreciate the effort that went into this tray system, and it definitely made the pieces safer for transport to me. However, now that I have the game and I want to play it, the trays are more of a burden then a benefit.
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Erawen Lowhunger
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Nope. Good enough for me/us.
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David desJardins
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Unless you're going to paint the minions, just tossing the inserts and throwing them all in a bag seems fine.

If you paint them and need to protect them, then the tray seems about right.

So I'm not seeing the need for something else.
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John Di Ponio
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I don't know Richard. If it could be done right and not cost the same amount as the game itself then maybe. I happen to think that Broken Token or some other tray company will come up with something.
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Lawrence
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Considering the relative cost for larger inserts such as Scythe ($40 - $50) and how much bigger of a box this is, I'm willing to bet that the price would be as much as the game (~$75). However, considering that the game already has an insert that many (not all) are satisfied with, demand won't likely be as high to justify as high of a production run as a Scythe insert. Lower manufacturing runs mean that programming, setup, and tooling costs are amortized by less copies, upping price further ($85?).

Now consider the weight. The box is already heavy, and that's with thinner plastic trays. Broken Token's Scythe organizer is around 5 lbs. Adding a bit extra for the larger box, and we have a 20 lbs + box, which may turn off people further.

I'd be willing to consider purchasing a 3rd party insert, as the minion issue does occasionally irk me, but it's not worth more than probably $30 of inconvenience to me.
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Richard Sampson
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JohnnyD wrote:
I don't know Richard. If it could be done right and not cost the same amount as the game itself then maybe. I happen to think that Broken Token or some other tray company will come up with something.
I am not concerned with paying a decent chunk of change for a good insert. The default ones here really seemed designed for storing the game and not really for playing it, and that is not what I am looking for.

I would love a nice wooden insert, but now because the box is so large, I don't think that is practical due to the weight. Maybe David is right, that bags are the way to go.

Edit: Maybe some kind of foam core would work though and not be too expensive.
 
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WD Yoga
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I am more interested in what Riot and/or GameTrayz might be able to offer with regards trays.

I agree that the new trays should:
- support sleeved cards (with thick sleeves, not penny sleeves)
- put minions on middle and bottom trays.
- maybe protable parts for each card types.

Edit: and not too expensive, please!
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oystein eker
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Agree.
If, at some point the minion trays would be a hassle, I would just throw them in a zip lock bag.
- And keep the trays for mechs and cards.
 
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James David Romo
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The weirdest part is that the basic boards, that you always 100% need every game are at the very bottom of the box. You always have to pass up a full tray of minions every time that you may or may not use. That just seems silly.
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Jon Bowker
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ras2124 wrote:
Maybe David is right
Let's not encourage him
(Mind you, I've the exact same thing said about me by my wife)
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Xabier P
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EntropyGuardian wrote:
The weirdest part is that the basic boards, that you always 100% need every game are at the very bottom of the box. You always have to pass up a full tray of minions every time that you may or may not use. That just seems silly.


That's exactly the most annoying thing for me. I wouldn't mind leaving the minions in their tray in the box until needed, but no, I need to take out everything.
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Noah Adelman

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Orophin wrote:
EntropyGuardian wrote:
The weirdest part is that the basic boards, that you always 100% need every game are at the very bottom of the box. You always have to pass up a full tray of minions every time that you may or may not use. That just seems silly.


That's exactly the most annoying thing for me. I wouldn't mind leaving the minions in their tray in the box until needed, but no, I need to take out everything.


You could always remove the bottom trayz, then put the minion trayz on the bottom...then stack the boards and deck boxes on top of them. I did at one point try to put the boards on top for the reason you said, but the wow factor of the components was just too awesome to not have right on top!

As partial as I am to the Trayz, this feedback is great. I was hoping to show people what can be done when more thought was put into the insert from the beginning.

Its been a 10 year dream for me to improve organization in board games. I cant think of a better fulfillment of a dream for an insert guy like me, than to work on this project! (Thanks Chris)

I hope to continue pushing the envelope, and work on many future projects to come. All this feedback will be great for my inserts going forward.

Thanks!
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Richard Sampson
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_GameTrayz_ wrote:
You could always remove the bottom trayz, then put the minion trayz on the bottom...then stack the boards and deck boxes on top of them. I did at one point try to put the boards on top for the reason you said, but the wow factor of the components was just too awesome to not have right on top!
Does this work and have the lid shut all the way? I haven't tried it because I kind of assumed that due to the need for the overlap in the 2nd and 3rd layer, especially around the hour glass, it would be too high and in an uneven way.
 
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James David Romo
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ras2124 wrote:
_GameTrayz_ wrote:
You could always remove the bottom trayz, then put the minion trayz on the bottom...then stack the boards and deck boxes on top of them. I did at one point try to put the boards on top for the reason you said, but the wow factor of the components was just too awesome to not have right on top!
Does this work and have the lid shut all the way? I haven't tried it because I kind of assumed that due to the need for the overlap in the 2nd and 3rd layer, especially around the hour glass, it would be too high and in an uneven way.


I put something back wrong and now the lid lifts ever so slightly. I need an instruction manual or something. Haha
 
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Chris Cantrell
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EntropyGuardian wrote:

I put something back wrong and now the lid lifts ever so slightly. I need an instruction manual or something. Haha


Rodney to the Rescue!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgirZYxydM
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Matt Evans
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Esvath wrote:
I am more interested in what Riot and/or GameTrayz might be able to offer with regards trays.

I agree that the new trays should:
- support sleeved cards (with thick sleeves, not penny sleeves)
- put minions on middle and bottom trays.
- maybe protable parts for each card types.

Edit: and not too expensive, please!


As for the sleeve part, I have everything in super thick Ultra Pro Standard sleeves and everything fits comfortably in the box.

Fill the three card slots on the bottom layer with all the sleeved Command cards. Then take out the insert in the boss minion box, turn the figure around and then lift it and there's about 3 inches of empty space. Slide the sleeved, Damage cards, Schematic cards and Boss Command cards right in there. It keeps the figure in from sliding around too.

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George Morgan
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Guess you can't please everyone, lol.

While I agree that it would be nice to be able to support sleeved cards (maybe put them in the area where the big axe boss sits and only bring him out when you need him) I think some of the initial complaints will probably become negligible the more you play the game and get familiar with how everything sits in the box. As far as inserts go, I'm very pleased with the ones in the box. Granted, this is my opinion.

Just seems like it would be a shame to get rid of the inserts and spend more money on an insert.

2 cents.

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WD Yoga
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mattamd wrote:

As for the sleeve part, I have everything in super thick Ultra Pro Standard sleeves and everything fits comfortably in the box.

Fill the three card slots on the bottom layer with all the sleeved Command cards. Then take out the insert in the boss minion box, turn the figure around and then lift it and there's about 3 inches of empty space. Slide the sleeved, Damage cards, Schematic cards and Boss Command cards right in there. It keeps the figure in from sliding around too.



Oh this is brilliant! Thanks for the advice.
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Rodney "Watch It Played" Smith
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Riot Kades wrote:
EntropyGuardian wrote:

I put something back wrong and now the lid lifts ever so slightly. I need an instruction manual or something. Haha


Rodney to the Rescue!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvgirZYxydM


This link will take you to the exact point where you can see everything going into the box (remember, the boss board goes under the very bottom tray):

https://youtu.be/RvgirZYxydM?t=9m3s
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Richard Sampson
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gmorgan1217 wrote:
Just seems like it would be a shame to get rid of the inserts and spend more money on an insert.
Why? People pay money for all kinds of alternative storage solutions (3rd party inserts, plano, etc.) when the default doesn't work for them. I didn't buy this game for the insert; I bought it to play. For me, the insert gets in the way of me playing the game because it makes the game require a fair amount more time and space to get out and put away (not to mention it is part of the reason the box is so big). I would gladly spend money to improve this situation just like I have done in the past for many other games.
 
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Bruno D
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Just curios, how much time do you think your ideal insert could save you here?

ras2124 wrote:
gmorgan1217 wrote:
Just seems like it would be a shame to get rid of the inserts and spend more money on an insert.
Why? People pay money for all kinds of alternative storage solutions (3rd party inserts, plano, etc.) when the default doesn't work for them. I didn't buy this game for the insert; I bought it to play. For me, the insert gets in the way of me playing the game because it makes the game require a fair amount more time and space to get out and put away (not to mention it is part of the reason the box is so big). I would gladly spend money to improve this situation just like I have done in the past for many other games.
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Richard Sampson
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teg2 wrote:
Just curios, how much time do you think your ideal insert could save you here?

ras2124 wrote:
gmorgan1217 wrote:
Just seems like it would be a shame to get rid of the inserts and spend more money on an insert.
Why? People pay money for all kinds of alternative storage solutions (3rd party inserts, plano, etc.) when the default doesn't work for them. I didn't buy this game for the insert; I bought it to play. For me, the insert gets in the way of me playing the game because it makes the game require a fair amount more time and space to get out and put away (not to mention it is part of the reason the box is so big). I would gladly spend money to improve this situation just like I have done in the past for many other games.
If the minions were in a single container where they could be picked out of and just thrown back in, and the box did not need to be removed to get the other necessary components, I expect I would save ~4 sq. feet of space getting stuff out (maybe 2 if you assume you just leave the minion trays stacked). On top of that I would wager at least 5-10 minutes every game.
 
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Will
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ras2124 wrote:

- Better support for sleeves.

I keep seeing this mentioned, but I have everything sleeved, and it all seems to fit well. I put some of the cards inside the mission 3 box. There's a lot of room underneath the insert in that box.
 
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Richard Sampson
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Temelin wrote:
ras2124 wrote:

- Better support for sleeves.

I keep seeing this mentioned, but I have everything sleeved, and it all seems to fit well. I put some of the cards inside the mission 3 box. There's a lot of room underneath the insert in that box.
Yeah, but I am sure you can imagine, if I don't care for the minion storage, I don't want to have my cards in all the nooks and crannies of the box. My ideal is something I can open the box, get out what I need, play, and then just throw it all back in with minimal sorting. As is it, it is kind of a take everything out, sort through everything to get what you need, play, take everything back out, resort back into storage, and then put away.

I get that people are okay with the trays, but I am very surprised that people don't actually think the current system is at least a little inefficient. I am not a huge fan of baggies, but when you have literally 100 pieces that are all the same, a single storage container is FAR more practical than 100 individual spots.
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Will
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Definitely understandable. Setup is pretty quick. We've been dumping the first tray of minis out and keeping them next to the gear board, but yeah, tear-down is a little bit more involved.

If you take out the trays for minis, maybe you could take the things out of the spoiler box too and keep all of the cards in there. I think they would all fit sleeved in there.
 
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