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Codex: Card-Time Strategy – Deluxe Set» Forums » Rules

Subject: Jandra, the Negator dies on opponent's turn rss

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Robin Ekman
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The other day my opponent, playing Red, played Kidnapping to take control of Jandra, the Negator from me, playing Black. He then wanted to attack one of my units with Jandra, which would kill both units.



My understanding is that since Jandra is Red's unit during this turn, her on death ability would destroy all Red's units. Red's plan, on the other hand, was that Jandra's death would kill all Black's units.

Who is correct?
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Michael
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I believe that "your" refers to the controller's units, and that this point is key. This means that red being the controller would suffer the effects of the ability.

MTG differentiates between controller and owner of a card in the same way; there's a strong president for this understanding.
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Tom D

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I believe that all of Red's non-demon units would die since they had control of her.
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Rabid Schnauzer
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This actually opens up a nasty one two punch with the lending patrollers rule in FFA.....
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rabid_schnauzer wrote:
This actually opens up a nasty one two punch with the lending patrollers rule in FFA.....


But in FFA if your unit is on an opponent's "dies: draw 1 card" spot, you draw the card, not the opponent. I believe you are still that unit's controller.
 
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Robin Ekman
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mkaup366 wrote:
I believe that "your" refers to the controller's units, and that this point is key. This means that red being the controller would suffer the effects of the ability.

MTG differentiates between controller and owner of a card in the same way; there's a strong president for this understanding.

Yes, this is my reasoning too, based on that as you say, in MtG, "you" and "your" on a permanent always refer to the controller.
 
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P Diddy
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Kidnapping: "Gain control of an opposing tech 0, I, or II unit until end of turn. Ready it and it gets haste until end of turn."

From the Rulebook:

"Whenever an effect doesn’t specify owner or controller, it means controller. Owner is so rare that we spell that out specifically when it’s needed. Things like “Your units get +1/+1” mean “units you control get +1/+1” not “units you OWN get +1/+1”."

So "your" = "you Control", and the Kidnapped Jadra extracts a huge vengeance.
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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rabid_schnauzer wrote:
This actually opens up a nasty one two punch with the lending patrollers rule in FFA.....


No because you still control your unit even if you lend it. You do not give control of it to your opponent.
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Rabid Schnauzer
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Wildhorn wrote:
rabid_schnauzer wrote:
This actually opens up a nasty one two punch with the lending patrollers rule in FFA.....


No because you still control your unit even if you lend it. You do not give control of it to your opponent.


Rulebook, page 14 wrote:

Whenever you lend a unit or hero to someone, you get it back during that player’s upkeep. You really did lose control of it while it was away and they really did gain control of it while it was helping them.
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Rabid Schnauzer
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K____ wrote:

But in FFA if your unit is on an opponent's "dies: draw 1 card" spot, you draw the card, not the opponent.


Got a source for that ?


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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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rabid_schnauzer wrote:
Wildhorn wrote:
rabid_schnauzer wrote:
This actually opens up a nasty one two punch with the lending patrollers rule in FFA.....


No because you still control your unit even if you lend it. You do not give control of it to your opponent.


Rulebook, page 14 wrote:

Whenever you lend a unit or hero to someone, you get it back during that player’s upkeep. You really did lose control of it while it was away and they really did gain control of it while it was helping them.


Oh yeah... I should not post before double checking my stuff. Didn't have access to the rules.
 
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Robin Ekman
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Ryjak wrote:
Kidnapping: "Gain control of an opposing tech 0, I, or II unit until end of turn. Ready it and it gets haste until end of turn."

From the Rulebook:

"Whenever an effect doesn’t specify owner or controller, it means controller. Owner is so rare that we spell that out specifically when it’s needed. Things like “Your units get +1/+1” mean “units you control get +1/+1” not “units you OWN get +1/+1”."

So "your" = "you Control", and the Kidnapped Jadra extracts a huge vengeance.

Thank you, that definitely resolves it. thumbsup
 
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trevor

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The red guy loses his units, he is the current controller of jandra, therefor it's his units that die.

Kidnapping clearly says "gain control" therefore he is clearly the controller. Case closed.
 
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rabid_schnauzer wrote:
K____ wrote:

But in FFA if your unit is on an opponent's "dies: draw 1 card" spot, you draw the card, not the opponent.


Got a source for that ?


The full paragraph:
rulebook page 14 wrote:

Whenever you lend a unit or hero to someone, you get it back during that player’s upkeep (so you won’t be able to actually protect the opponent immediately after you in turn order this way). You really did lose control of the lent patroller while it was away and they really did gain control of it while it was helping them. If it dies, it will go back to YOUR discard pile and you’ll get the Scavenger / Technician patrol zone bonuses. Exchanging control of units and heroes doesn’t trigger any “Arrives” abilities and it doesn’t change the state of them either. For example, if you lend a unit with a +1/+1 rune, it will still have the +1/+1 rune when you get it back. When you get back a lent unit or hero, it won’t go to your patrol zone.


I remembered the "you get patrol zone bonuses" part, but I didn't the "they really did gain control of it" part!

So I was wrong, and I agree Jandra would kill the kidnapping player's units.

I now get that the "patrol zone bonus bit" was not to clarify, but a specific rule for that case.

blush
 
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Vash TheStampede
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Another question :
If Jandra dies while you are in control of her, and you have crash bombers
Do their dies effect play and deal damage to your opponenet's base?

 
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Jonathan Maisonneuve
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Of course their die effect apply.
 
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