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Subject: Tuscany specific Automa rules? rss

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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Just wondering why the Tuscany specific rules for the Automa were not included in the rulebook for Tuscany EE?

These include:

- Taking bonus action with a glass bead. Tuscany (full edition) states that you can use the bead to take a bonus on a multiple bonus action, but only a bonus you did not already take using the 2-player action space. Does this rule still stand?

- Placing Automa stars on the influence board at set-up and scoring influence for the Automa at end game. Does this rule still stand?

Also, is there a chart for the Aggressive Automa variant when using the extended board? The one in the Viticulture EE rules is only for the basic board (i.e. only goes to 20) and there is no chart included in the Tuscany EE rulebook for use with the extended board. The Tuscany (full edition) rules mentions Aggressive Automa cards but the EE does not contain them.

It may be a good idea to put together a Tuscany EE Automa 1-page reference and upload it to the files page. There will probably be more than a few questions posted. I am very surprised these weren't included in the published rulebook for EE.

Cheers,
The Rev
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
Just wondering why the Tuscany specific rules for the Automa were not included in the rulebook for Tuscany EE?

These include:

- Taking bonus action with a glass bead. Tuscany (full edition) states that you can use the bead to take a bonus on a multiple bonus action, but only a bonus you did not already take using the 2-player action space. Does this rule still stand?

- Placing Automa stars on the influence board at set-up and scoring influence for the Automa at end game. Does this rule still stand?

Also, is there a chart for the Aggressive Automa variant when using the extended board? The one in the Viticulture EE rules is only for the basic board (i.e. only goes to 20) and there is no chart included in the Tuscany EE rulebook for use with the extended board. The Tuscany (full edition) rules mentions Aggressive Automa cards but the EE does not contain them.

It may be a good idea to put together a Tuscany EE Automa 1-page reference and upload it to the files page. There will probably be more than a few questions posted. I am very surprised these weren't included in the published rulebook for EE.

Cheers,
The Rev


Hi Rev

That's a very good question and I've been racking my brain, since I saw your post yesterday, but I simple can't remember any discussions about this back when a decision was made on making Tuscany: Essential Edition. Which I know is a very unsatisfying answer.

Apart from that, then almost every rule from Big Tuscany is used. The notes about the Patronage and Mafia can be ignored, since they're not in Tuscany Essential. Most of the campaign can also be used if you're willing to sort out the visitor cards.

To answer your specific questions:

1) Yes, you can use the bonus action token to take other bonus actions as you ask about.

2) Yes, the Automa use the Influence system.

3) You use the same Aggressive Automa chart as in Big Tuscany, where you count out the number of modules you use and look that up on the three cards that shows you the VPs per turn.

For purposes of counting Viticulture Essential contains 4 expansion modules and Tuscany Esssential contains 3.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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mortenmdk wrote:

3) You use the same Aggressive Automa chart as in Big Tuscany, where you count out the number of modules you use and look that up on the three cards that shows you the VPs per turn.

For purposes of counting Viticulture Essential contains 4 expansion modules and Tuscany Esssential contains 3.


Thanks Morten! That's what I figured in terms of answers, but I thought a thread here would be helpful for others.

One last question, is there a link to an image of the three cards from Tuscany (original printing) with the Aggressive Automa chart? They are not included in the EE so I don't have a copy.

Cheers,
The Rev
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:

3) You use the same Aggressive Automa chart as in Big Tuscany, where you count out the number of modules you use and look that up on the three cards that shows you the VPs per turn.

For purposes of counting Viticulture Essential contains 4 expansion modules and Tuscany Esssential contains 3.


Thanks Morten! That's what I figured in terms of answers, but I thought a thread here would be helpful for others.

One last question, is there a link to an image of the three cards from Tuscany (original printing) with the Aggressive Automa chart? They are not included in the EE so I don't have a copy.

Cheers,
The Rev


Never mind, I found them here:

http://www.densyvendesans.dk/publicfiles/viticulture/automaR...
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
- Placing Automa stars on the influence board at set-up and scoring influence for the Automa at end game.


Just to clarify for folks who come here for future reference since I had to go hunting for this rule:

- When setting up the extended board, the Automa gets one influence star on each territory worth 1VP and 2 stars on each territory worth 2VP. (You'll have to use more than one color for this.)

Other Tuscany Automa rules that apply:
- Of special workers, you can only use Farmer, Mafioso, Professore, Politico, Oracle, Messenger, and Traveler. I assume you draw two cards from this selection at the beginning of the game.
- On the extended board, bonus action beads can only be used for a bonus action that's not on the 1-2 player spot, e.g. on the Summer Visitor card spot, you use a bonus action bead to play an extra card, but not to earn a lira.

Regarding the campaign, just glancing through, I don't see a reason why you can't just use the campaign described in the Viticulture EE rules.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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Matt_W wrote:

Just to clarify for folks who come here for future reference since I had to go hunting for this rule:

- When setting up the extended board, the Automa gets one influence star on each territory worth 1VP and 2 stars on each territory worth 2VP. (You'll have to use more than one color for this.)


That's great, thanks! I meant to come back and link to the rulebook but forgot.

Matt_W wrote:
- On the extended board, bonus action beads can only be used for a bonus action that's not on the 1-2 player spot, e.g. on the Summer Visitor card spot, you use a bonus action bead to play an extra card, but not to earn a lira.


True. To clarify, you get the 1-2 player spot bonus when you place your worker there, then you can use a bead to take a different bonus spot (if there is one) from the 3+ player spots. You just can't use the bead to take the 1-2 player bonus a second time (the first time triggering when you place the worker there).
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Morten Monrad Pedersen
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Matt_W wrote:
- When setting up the extended board, the Automa gets one influence star on each territory worth 1VP and 2 stars on each territory worth 2VP. (You'll have to use more than one color for this.)


When I've played, I don't think, I've ever placed the stars for the Automa. I think that it's pretty easy to remember that 1 VP = 1 star and 2 VP = 2 stars and I'm lazy like that .
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Here's a draft for rules that brings Automa up to speed with Tuscany Essential: http://densyvendesans.dk/publicfiles/viticulture/AutomaForTu...
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Stuart Boston
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Thanks for this thread, I just received TEE yesterday and did a solo play through.

I was confused about using the bonus actions that were on the primary space and decided that was ok and to use the beads to trigger the 2nd/3rd space bonus if I wanted it.

However, this seemingly made the game easier as I was left with a surplus of beads in year 6 (when I had beaten the automata) which did not happen in VEE. Perhaps I am more skilled at it that I used to me? I like to think so
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Omertron wrote:
Thanks for this thread, I just received TEE yesterday and did a solo play through.

I was confused about using the bonus actions that were on the primary space and decided that was ok and to use the beads to trigger the 2nd/3rd space bonus if I wanted it.

However, this seemingly made the game easier as I was left with a surplus of beads in year 6 (when I had beaten the automata) which did not happen in VEE. Perhaps I am more skilled at it that I used to me? I like to think so


You can do any bonus action on an action space using a bonus action token as long as the specific bonus action wasn't also taken by the worker you placed on the action.

The newly written Automa rules for Tuscany Essential can now be found on the last page of this rulebook: https://app.box.com/s/6ntyvrduiewzgogj6glxc6lt5g40i5x9
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mortenmdk wrote:
The newly written Automa rules for Tuscany Essential can now be found on the last page of this rulebook: https://app.box.com/s/6ntyvrduiewzgogj6glxc6lt5g40i5x9


Brilliant, thanks!
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:

3) You use the same Aggressive Automa chart as in Big Tuscany, where you count out the number of modules you use and look that up on the three cards that shows you the VPs per turn.

For purposes of counting Viticulture Essential contains 4 expansion modules and Tuscany Esssential contains 3.


Thanks Morten! That's what I figured in terms of answers, but I thought a thread here would be helpful for others.

One last question, is there a link to an image of the three cards from Tuscany (original printing) with the Aggressive Automa chart? They are not included in the EE so I don't have a copy.

Cheers,
The Rev


Never mind, I found them here:

http://www.densyvendesans.dk/publicfiles/viticulture/automaR...


Hey Rev- can you explain these cards. I'm not sure what I am looking at here. I have both EE so based on Morten's comment above I am playing with seven modules. Looking at these cards shows a progression at row 7 but what do the buildings have to do with everything. Thanks for your help.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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maloma wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:

3) You use the same Aggressive Automa chart as in Big Tuscany, where you count out the number of modules you use and look that up on the three cards that shows you the VPs per turn.

For purposes of counting Viticulture Essential contains 4 expansion modules and Tuscany Esssential contains 3.


Thanks Morten! That's what I figured in terms of answers, but I thought a thread here would be helpful for others.

One last question, is there a link to an image of the three cards from Tuscany (original printing) with the Aggressive Automa chart? They are not included in the EE so I don't have a copy.

Cheers,
The Rev


Never mind, I found them here:

http://www.densyvendesans.dk/publicfiles/viticulture/automaR...


Hey Rev- can you explain these cards. I'm not sure what I am looking at here. I have both EE so based on Morten's comment above I am playing with seven modules. Looking at these cards shows a progression at row 7 but what do the buildings have to do with everything. Thanks for your help.


The buildings can just be ignored (they are related to a clunky mechanism that was dropped for the Automa in EE).

Just pick the row with the number of expansions you are using (4 in Viticulture, 3 in Tuscany EE, so 7 in total). The red number above the building in each column is the turn number, the purple number below the building in each column is where you advance the Aggressive Automa score on that turn. Just ignore the buildings, they essentially mean nothing.
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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I just took some small round "office" stickers (green for normal (-4,-2,1,6,12,18,28) and yellow for hard (-4,-2,1,6,12,22,32)) and used them to mark the score track where the easy and hard automas would advance each turn. Then I never have to look them up again!

You can see them here:



I start the Automa score marker on the first sticker, then at the beginning of each turn I advance it to the next one of the appropriate colour (green for normal, yellow for hard).
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
maloma wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
reverendunclebastard wrote:
mortenmdk wrote:

3) You use the same Aggressive Automa chart as in Big Tuscany, where you count out the number of modules you use and look that up on the three cards that shows you the VPs per turn.

For purposes of counting Viticulture Essential contains 4 expansion modules and Tuscany Esssential contains 3.


Thanks Morten! That's what I figured in terms of answers, but I thought a thread here would be helpful for others.

One last question, is there a link to an image of the three cards from Tuscany (original printing) with the Aggressive Automa chart? They are not included in the EE so I don't have a copy.

Cheers,
The Rev


Never mind, I found them here:

http://www.densyvendesans.dk/publicfiles/viticulture/automaR...


Hey Rev- can you explain these cards. I'm not sure what I am looking at here. I have both EE so based on Morten's comment above I am playing with seven modules. Looking at these cards shows a progression at row 7 but what do the buildings have to do with everything. Thanks for your help.


The buildings can just be ignored (they are related to a clunky mechanism that was dropped for the Automa in EE).

Just pick the row with the number of expansions you are using (4 in Viticulture, 3 in Tuscany EE, so 7 in total). The red number above the building in each column is the turn number, the purple number below the building in each column is where you advance the Aggressive Automa score on that turn. Just ignore the buildings, they essentially mean nothing.


Is this tied to the aggressive variant?
If so, why wouldn't the scores match the (easy/normal/hard) table that is in the updated rules?

thanks for the explanation.
 
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Reverend Uncle Bastard
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bikefreak wrote:

Is this tied to the aggressive variant?
If so, why wouldn't the scores match the (easy/normal/hard) table that is in the updated rules?

thanks for the explanation.


It is for the aggressive variant. Not sure why they don't match exactly but they are identical after year 3. Guess they revised the numbers for the new edition. Won't really make much of a difference which version of the numbers you use since they match up after the first few turns anyway.
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Ok perfect. Thanks for the sticker idea. I appreciate the quick reply.
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maloma wrote:
Ok perfect. Thanks for the sticker idea. I appreciate the quick reply.


Anytime Marty! Always glad to help.
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
maloma wrote:
Hey Rev- can you explain these cards. I'm not sure what I am looking at here. I have both EE so based on Morten's comment above I am playing with seven modules. Looking at these cards shows a progression at row 7 but what do the buildings have to do with everything. Thanks for your help.


The buildings can just be ignored (they are related to a clunky mechanism that was dropped for the Automa in EE).

Just pick the row with the number of expansions you are using (4 in Viticulture, 3 in Tuscany EE, so 7 in total). The red number above the building in each column is the turn number, the purple number below the building in each column is where you advance the Aggressive Automa score on that turn. Just ignore the buildings, they essentially mean nothing.


Yeah, it was an attempt at adding a thematic explanation for the Automa's series of VPs by assigning a VP/year production to each building type and then let the Automa build zero or one building each year and then you could in principle compute the Automa's score each year based on those buildings - or you could, well, just look at the numbers on the card.

It was silly and clunky, it restricted our design space and everybody told me it was a bad idea, but in my infinite wisdom I pig-headedly ignored them.

Sigh.

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Ok last question...whistle

Aggressive scoring. Does the automa score on the influence map on top of the aggressive score.

Yes- so the max score for the automa is +11 at the end.
No- how do you play the influence map- do you have to play 2 stars on the single point regions and 3 stars on the 2 point regions to score then but ignore the automa influence points.
 
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maloma wrote:
Ok last question...whistle

Aggressive scoring. Does the automa score on the influence map on top of the aggressive score.

Yes- so the max score for the automa is +11 at the end.
No- how do you play the influence map- do you have to play 2 stars on the single point regions and 3 stars on the 2 point regions to score then but ignore the automa influence points.


The answer is yes! You always score the Automa's points from the influence map (aggressive or non-aggressive). The aggressive automa is a tough opponent.

Not sure if you saw my comment on your SGOYT post, but the regular automa, when using the extended board, starts with a score of 25 (see "win" marked on score track) not 20 and then adds its influence score to that.
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mortenmdk wrote:


It was silly and clunky, it restricted our design space and everybody told me it was a bad idea, but in my infinite wisdom I pig-headedly ignored them.

Sigh.



That's okay Morten, we are all human (well, except for the Automas)
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
maloma wrote:
Ok last question...whistle

Aggressive scoring. Does the automa score on the influence map on top of the aggressive score.

Yes- so the max score for the automa is +11 at the end.
No- how do you play the influence map- do you have to play 2 stars on the single point regions and 3 stars on the 2 point regions to score then but ignore the automa influence points.


The answer is yes! You always score the Automa's points from the influence map (aggressive or non-aggressive). The aggressive automa is a tough opponent.

Not sure if you saw my comment on your SGOYT post, but the regular automa, when using the extended board, starts with a score of 25 (see "win" marked on score track) not 20 and then adds its influence score to that.


Yes I saw the adjusted score to 25 vs 20. I adjusted my score to 33-31. Automa scored 6 influence points at the end.
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And the aggressive points plus influence. Now we are talking---sweet. Next play will be attacking the aggressive bot for sure.
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reverendunclebastard wrote:
maloma wrote:
Ok last question...whistle

Aggressive scoring. Does the automa score on the influence map on top of the aggressive score.

Yes- so the max score for the automa is +11 at the end.
No- how do you play the influence map- do you have to play 2 stars on the single point regions and 3 stars on the 2 point regions to score then but ignore the automa influence points.


The answer is yes! You always score the Automa's points from the influence map (aggressive or non-aggressive). The aggressive automa is a tough opponent.

Not sure if you saw my comment on your SGOYT post, but the regular automa, when using the extended board, starts with a score of 25 (see "win" marked on score track) not 20 and then adds its influence score to that.


Just to give official confirmation: The Rev is (as always ) right.
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