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Mac Mcleod
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Her water broke, the catholic hospital made decisions for her and her baby.
This is why we continue to need secular hospitals and why we can't rely on religious hospitals.



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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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Sorry Mac. She makes no sense.

Catholic hospital referred her to a public hospital for an abortion.

Records didn't arrive.

From that point she refers to "the local" hospital. It is not at all clear which hospital failed her, but it seems like she is saying the public hospital failed her from that point, and the story goes for weeks after the referral.

Records not arriving between providers isn't a grand conspiracy, it's normal. Then it was weeks, seemingly, of bad service at the public hospital. She should have hand carried a copy after weeks of problems.

Her entire contention seems to be that the Catholic hospital withheld records after referring her to the public hospital, which makes them entirely at fault. Plus, hospitals CAN'T just share records due to serious legal constraints. The records were probably numerous and the hospitals in question probably didn't have means to easily, confidentially share records electronically.

I'm leaning: Tragic story, edited to cast false light, related by a nice lady who knows less about the medical system than the average democrat.

Edit: more time now.

Timeline as I understand it.

She went to the catholic hospital. They told her the baby had a slim chance of living. She decided to "terminate the preganancy". They referred her to the public hospital. That's the point the horror treatment story begins. Bad treatment lasts for weeks.

Her contention is that she "feels" the catholic hospital didn't send records based upon some religious reasons, which contributed to the bad treatment.


End of timeline.

The story is edited in such a manner as to not lie about the timeline, but to make it seem as though all the bad treatment happened at the catholic hospital.
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J
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Koldfoot wrote:
Records didn't arrive.

Not exactly. The catholic hospital did not mark the abortion procedure as "medically necessary" so the insurance wound not cover it at the other hospital.
 
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Jage
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jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Records didn't arrive.

Not exactly. The catholic hospital did not mark the abortion procedure as "medically necessary" so the insurance wound not cover it at the other hospital.


Well, was it medically necessary, if the life of the mother was not in danger?

Also, couldn't she have just gotten a second opinion if she disagreed? It seems like her argument is with the Insurance Company.
 
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J
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jageroxorz wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Records didn't arrive.

Not exactly. The catholic hospital did not mark the abortion procedure as "medically necessary" so the insurance wound not cover it at the other hospital.


Well, was it medically necessary, if the life of the mother was not in danger?

Also, couldn't she have just gotten a second opinion if she disagreed? It seems like her argument is with the Insurance Company.

Medical necessity is not necessarily predicated on risk of life. Although in this case, carrying the baby to term would result in a significant risk of hemorrhage and infection which could impact fertility and life.

As to the second opinion: perhaps or perhaps not. There could be many reasons why that option would not work. If I had to guess, I would say time, distance, and availability would be factors.
 
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Jage
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jmilum wrote:
jageroxorz wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Records didn't arrive.

Not exactly. The catholic hospital did not mark the abortion procedure as "medically necessary" so the insurance wound not cover it at the other hospital.


Well, was it medically necessary, if the life of the mother was not in danger?

Also, couldn't she have just gotten a second opinion if she disagreed? It seems like her argument is with the Insurance Company.

Medical necessity is not necessarily predicated on risk of life. Although in this case, carrying the baby to term would result in a significant risk of hemorrhage and infection which could impact fertility and life.

As to the second opinion: perhaps or perhaps not. There could be many reasons why that option would not work. If I had to guess, I would say time, distance, and availability would be factors.


She went to the other hospital anyway...?

Anyway, the medical opinion was it wasn't necessary. If you don't like that, get insurance which doesn't require it to be medically necessary to cover abortion, or get a second opinion. If it was medically necessary, then just prove to the insurance that it was. And then it seems to be an issue with the insurance, not the hospital. Doctor's disagree on which procedures are medically necessary all the time.
 
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J
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jageroxorz wrote:
jmilum wrote:
jageroxorz wrote:
jmilum wrote:
Koldfoot wrote:
Records didn't arrive.

Not exactly. The catholic hospital did not mark the abortion procedure as "medically necessary" so the insurance wound not cover it at the other hospital.


Well, was it medically necessary, if the life of the mother was not in danger?

Also, couldn't she have just gotten a second opinion if she disagreed? It seems like her argument is with the Insurance Company.

Medical necessity is not necessarily predicated on risk of life. Although in this case, carrying the baby to term would result in a significant risk of hemorrhage and infection which could impact fertility and life.

As to the second opinion: perhaps or perhaps not. There could be many reasons why that option would not work. If I had to guess, I would say time, distance, and availability would be factors.


She went to the other hospital anyway...?

Anyway, the medical opinion was it wasn't necessary. If you don't like that, get insurance which doesn't require it to be medically necessary to cover abortion, or get a second opinion. If it was medically necessary, then just prove to the insurance that it was. And then it seems to be an issue with the insurance, not the hospital. Doctor's disagree on which procedures are medically necessary all the time.

Apparently the other hospital was not "in network" and the insurance required the in-network one to determine medical necessity.

There is a real issue with religious affiliated hospitals buying up secular ones. There may be no local secular hospital for the insurance to cover.

Perhaps people just need to move? That never seems to be an appropriate response to other issues...
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Jage
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The could, or choose an insurance plan that has different hospitals in network, or a lot of options.

I still haven't seen it proven that her in-network hospital erred medically in stating it wasn't medically necessary.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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Had preclampsia, extreme risk of stroke or seizure without any notice.



She had to be rushed to the nearest hospital. The hospital would not give her a tubal ligation to prevent future pregnancies which would likely kill her and future children. The hospital said tubal ligations violated their religious directives.


"These are public hospitals that take insurance but then they deny you your rights"
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Mac Mcleod
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Because catholic initiative had bought the hospital (and EVERY OTHER practice in network), she was denied removal of a dislodged IUD despite the fact she was bleeding and in pain unless she changed insurance and health care network.



She was cramping, in pain, and bleeding for weeks with a constant risk of infection and the ongoing risk of lacerations while she changed insurance. The procedure took seconds.

Because it was for birth control, she was denied medical assistance while bleeding and in pain.
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Italian Seismologist
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the irish medical system is just fucked up in general.

it wasn't too long ago that a woman was left to die due to pregnancy related issues because the standard and required procedure in that situation was an abortion.

they sat there and watched her die, when all they needed to do was an abortion.

this is why irish women are buying abortion pills online (at great risk) or, if they can afford it, going over to england for an abortion.. all because insist that their own sky-daddy should decide on whether people die or not, rather than science..
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Wendell
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galad2003 wrote:
Sounds like a breakdown on many levels. Both hospitals, the Doctors, the insurance company and the patient.


True. But only the patient risks dying from it.
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Mac Mcleod
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https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-freely/one-nations-largest-c...

Quote:
...
But it’s also completely consistent with everything else we know about Catholic hospitals. We know, for example, that the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, which sets the rules for all Catholic hospitals, has said that its hospitals should let a woman die rather provide an emergency abortion. The bishops made their policy crystal-clear when a Catholic hospital in Phoenix defied the bishops’ rules and saved a woman’s life by providing an abortion. The bishops excommunicated a nun who was on the committee that approved the abortion, and the hospital was stripped of its Catholic status.

We also know that there have been countless women that have rushed to Catholic hospitals when something started to go horribly awry with their pregnancies, only to be turned away, allowed to deteriorate, or worse. Tamesha Means was one of those women. She was in the 18th week of pregnancy, happily awaiting the birth of her child, when her water broke. She rushed to the hospital, but unfortunately because of the bishops’ rules, the hospital didn’t tell Tamesha that the pregnancy was doomed and that the safest course was an abortion. The hospital sent her home — not once, but twice — while she was in excruciating pain and developing an infection. Only once she began to deliver during her third visit did the hospital start providing care.

And as researcher Lori Freedman has documented over and over again, Catholic hospitals have routinely delayed providing care, allowing pregnant women’s health to deteriorate. For example, one doctor described a patient in the middle of her pregnancy who was miscarrying. She was bleeding so much that the whites of her eyes filled with blood, and she developed a serious infection and a 106 degree fever. The only way to treat her was to terminate the pregnancy. The Catholic hospital wouldn’t allow the abortion, however, until the fetus had no heartbeat. The doctor said that the woman was “dying before our eyes.” The doctor provided unauthorized treatment to save her life, and then promptly quit his job. The woman survived but spent 10 days in intensive care.

Tragically, not all women survive. Savita Halappanavar died after rushing to a hospital in Ireland when she was miscarrying at 17 weeks. At first she just complained of back pain but over the course of three days, Savita got sicker. Her pain was intense; she developed a serious blood infection; and she and her husband begged the doctors to complete the miscarriage by providing an abortion. But the hospital said they couldn’t “help her” because Ireland is a Catholic country.

So is it a surprise that Trinity Health, which operates 88 hospitals in more than 20 states throughout the U.S., says it has the legal right to withhold emergency care from any pregnant woman who goes to the emergency room at any one of those hospitals—even if her life or health is at risk? Perhaps not based on what we already know.

But is it shocking and scary? You bet. And wrong? Yes. And illegal? Yes.

As Catholic hospitals proliferate in this country – right now, at least 10 of the 25 largest hospital systems are Catholic-affiliated – it’s more and more likely that pregnant women facing emergencies will unwittingly find themselves in a Catholic hospital that will refuse to provide care. Losing a wanted pregnancy is devastating enough as it is. No woman should be worried on top of her loss that she also won’t be able to get the medical care she needs because of the religious affiliation of the hospital. Instead, every pregnant woman facing an emergency should be able to go into any hospital with the peace of mind that she will be cared for according to her medical needs, not the hospital’s religion. Anything short of that is not only a violation of the law, but it’s also downright unethical. And these hospitals accept and are subsidized by public funds (a.k.a. our tax dollars). They need to follow the law and let doctors do their jobs.

...
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Jage
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I disagree that accepting any government funds for medical services requires you to perform any and all legal medical services. The fact that insurance money is used for some services doesn't require you to perform every service.
 
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J.D. Hall
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In times like these, people of faith need to ask:
What Would Jesus Do?

Probably kick their stupid asses.
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Robert Stuart
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It's attitudes & practices like this that caused my father, a medical doctor, to leave the Catholic Church.
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Bitter and Acerbic Harridan
We did a whole thread on this. https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20564920#20564920
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Mac Mcleod
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bjlillo wrote:
Mac falls for more lefty BS. Shocking.


BJ ignores catholic policies which are literally killing women in catholic hospitals.

Sad more than shocking.

So preferring that Melanie Jones die rather than remove her IUD is acceptable to you. Or did you even bother to listen to what happened to her?

I can understand the abortion issue.

I can NOT understand letting women die because they have a malfunctioning birth control device.

I can NOT understand refusing to provide women prone to dying from pregnancy a tubal ligation.

That's simply monstrous.
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Greg
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maxo-texas wrote:
Her water broke, the catholic hospital made decisions for her and her baby.
This is why we continue to need secular hospitals and why we can't rely on religious hospitals.


Urgh... This was an awful situation. I don't understand why the second hospital did not do an examination if the first hospital would not send the info.

In cases like this, I would be for an abortion because both the mother and the life of the baby were in extreme danger.

The cases that I cannot support are when people do it just because they just don't want the baby or to have to carry it to term.
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Mac Mcleod
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Phate999 wrote:
maxo-texas wrote:
Her water broke, the catholic hospital made decisions for her and her baby.
This is why we continue to need secular hospitals and why we can't rely on religious hospitals.


Urgh... This was an awful situation. I don't understand why the second hospital did not do an examination if the first hospital would not send the info.

In cases like this, I would be for an abortion because both the mother and the life of the baby were in extreme danger.

The cases that I cannot support are when people do it just because they just don't want the baby or to have to carry it to term.


Thank you!

Not for agreeing but for giving a clear opinion on the matter which sounds like you actually listened/read and thought about it. I appreciate that.
 
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