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Bios: Genesis» Forums » General

Subject: Where the Bacteria, Macro/Micro organism lives - thematic question rss

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Mario
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Let's say I succeede (roll double) and create life in Mars paleo-ocean. I create martian bacteria. I assume this bacteria lives in the ocean on Mars since it's "martian" bacteria. It mutates in course of game and so on... At what point and how it arrives to the Earth?
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philippe C.
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I think, in the game, the microorganism stays on Mars, on the placard there is a cosmic icon.

Ok, not really thematic, because if there was life on Mars (so great song...) it was disappear very quickly, and no macroorganism 4 billions years later, but... we can hope i'm wrong because microorganism go with water under the rocks, stay protected... I don't believe it, but we can say that to be thematic.
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Matt Watkins
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Most of the refugia represent different theories about the origins of life on earth. Think of them as a survey of the literature. Some of them are more well regarded than others. The Martian theory supposes that life emerged in lakes or oceans on Mars and then was transported by meteorite to Earth's oceans:
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/09/130905-mars-...
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philippe C.
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If life was appeared on earth really soon, why not on Mars, sure. But quickly life can't stay on Mars (magnetic field stopped, "solar wind", atmosphere go to space, no liquid water...). Meteorite from Mars falled and falls on earth, but i can't believe life can travel from Mars like that... Some bacteria can resist in Space but... life started on Mars finally on earth, from Mars... Why not but it's unlikely
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Mario
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I'm aware of martian theory and of theory that meteorites and comets transported water and life to Earth. What I ment was how it happened in game.
I came accross the J8 part of the rules: "The cosmos is active, and a seemingly innocuous meteor will allow the Mars-Bug (assumed to have fallen to Earth) to be parasitized. Green stays in the volcano with one Biont. His other Biont initiates a salmonella Parasite attached to the now Earthbound Mars-Bug".
I wondered whether it was just descriptive or there was some mechanism or connection that I'm missing.
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Phil Eklund
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enzoone wrote:
Let's say I succeede (roll double) and create life in Mars paleo-ocean. I create martian bacteria. I assume this bacteria lives in the ocean on Mars since it's "martian" bacteria. It mutates in course of game and so on... At what point and how it arrives to the Earth?


The game Bios:Genesis assumes that life with all four properties developed in Earth's Oceans. A corollary to this assumption is that subsequently, both microscopic and multicellular life invaded Earth's continents. Thus leading to the terrestrial ecosystem rules and the introduction to the next game in the series, Bios: Megafauna. All of these are mainstream ideas.

However, the game also assumes the four properties of life could have had independent evolutionary histories, before they came together in the ocean. Thus, any continental protolife would have washed into the sea from warm ponds, tidal protolife could have entered the deep from the shores, and Martian life could have plunked into the ocean from space. Protolife developing deep underground, or in lightning or red sprite energized clouds are also possible. What is controversial about these ideas is whether protolife can exhibit Darwinian style evolution before all four properties are present. I believe it is possible, using ideas of autocatalytic cycles used in the game.

Thus the players may start in various locations throughout the solar system, but by the times they go bacterial, or at least when they start acquiring parasites and mutations, they are assumed to have plunked into Earth's ocean.


This idea is mentioned in J8: "The cosmos is active, and a seemingly innocuous meteor will allow the Mars-Bug (assumed to have fallen to Earth) to be parasitized." This is descriptive, as there are no game mechanics to say when the ocean has been invaded. It is just assumed.

The idea that some qualities of life could have an extraterrestrial origin is mentioned in footnote 53:
"The idea that organic material or life itself could have seeded the Earth from outer space is called panspermia. Sources include interplanetary dust, Mars, or even (following the ideas of Jack Green) lunar tidal fumaroles. This idea remains popular because it explains how terrestrial life appeared just one turn after the late heavy bombardment, practically as soon as it possibly could appear. Studies have shown that organics and extremophile organisms deep in a meteorite stay cool and can survive the transit, shock, and atmospheric entry to Earth. Amino acids, nucleobases, and PAHs have been discovered in the Murchison meteorite. A meteorite blasted off Mars, called ALH84001, contains structures speculatively interpreted as nanobacteria. Phosphorus, a bottleneck element for ATP and nucleotides but not present in the oceans because of its insolubility, could have been made available to the organic soup by the meteoric compound schreibersite. Interstellar dust consists of a large component of organic molecules."

What I did not mention is that panspermia has some evidence in its favor because it explains how protolife on Earth could have developed so quickly after she gained her oceans. The ALH84001 meteorite from Mars suggests fossilized "nanocells", but they are perhaps too small to be protolife. Panspermia theory is also bolstered by the aforementioned studies showing that a stone remains cool inside during its fiery plunge through the atmosphere. It remains a highly speculative theory, but not too speculative for the game.
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philippe C.
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So a cosmic microorganism is in earth ocean, what about is home row ? cosmic or ocean ?

For Pansperma, it's a theory, today you can believe, but we don't know, no nanocells on mars meteorite, not for scientist.

I think it's more realistic than organic molecule can appear on space, but the jump to life needs some conditions... yes some bacteria can survive in space, but the problem is the same, where do they came from ? I think it makes more sense that prebiotic molecule exist in the universe, if they fall in good condition life can appear, and microorganism (spore) travel to space ? Maybe but i don't think it's the main mechanism to bring life on planets.

OK, but we can argue all night, because... no science facts ! We don't know ! Let the science says things and we can let our imagination plays

But there is so great discoveries like macroorganism more than 2 billions years ago in Congo ! We thought macroorganism started with ediacara 600 millions years ago, but no, more than 2 billions ! Be careful, these macroorganism more likely disappear. It's one think i love in your game Phil, life appear but can disappear... And appear again, realistic.
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Mario
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Phil, thank you for complex respons. J8 was descriptive - that's what I wanted to know.

chaps31 wrote:
So a cosmic microorganism is in earth ocean, what about is home row ? cosmic or ocean ?

Interesting point. I believe it's still cosmic for purpose of game. Let Phil to confirm this.

I like the idea I heard in a documentary TV show. "The life is natural state of matter."
I believe this, that matter tends to live. All is about circumstances.

It occured to me that the questions like "did life come from space to Earth?" or "is our origin in space?" are actually wierd. The Earth / human kind is part of Space too.
 
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philippe C.
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Quote:
I like the idea I heard in a documentary TV show. "The life is natural state of matter."
I believe this, that matter tends to live. All is about circumstances.


No purpose on life, no purpose, it's just our mind working like this, we love stories, we love begining, purpose, but life, no purpose, thing happens that's all... I mix oil and water, they separate, it's physics not because they want to

Saying "The life is natural state of matter." it's just because it sound so nice to our ears... we love that sentence, we love that story, but it's not science... I'm sure there is mandatory mechanism (oil and water) but we can't say that like it is a truth, a Truth... Read Stephen Jay Gould.
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Mario
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chaps31 wrote:

No purpose on life, no purpose, it's just our mind working like this, we love stories, we love begining, purpose, but life, no purpose, thing happens that's all... I mix oil and water, they separate, it's physics not because they want to

Saying "The life is natural state of matter." it's just because it sound so nice to our ears... we love that sentence, we love that story, but it's not science... I'm sure there is mandatory mechanism (oil and water) but we can't say that like it is a truth, a Truth... Read Stephen Jay Gould.


I agree with this actually. I was not speaking about purpose or about science. It was just about what I think/belive. When I say "life" I mean all forms of life. Not just human self–conscious life. It just happened...
But this is philosophy not board gaming.
 
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Phil Eklund
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chaps31 wrote:
So a cosmic microorganism is in earth ocean, what about is home row ? cosmic or ocean ?
An organism's home row is defined in E2 as "An Organism’s home row contains the Landform icon matching the one in the left edge of its placard, or the Host’s placard in the case of a parasitical Organism." It might have been good to include Organism's that you reside in as a foreign gene as part of your home row. But I don't do that.

I do not have any rules restricting parasite attachments to active rows, as parasites are considered omnipresent and can invade in any landform. Also, any macroorganism that is created is assumed to either be in or travel to the oceans, from where it may invade the continents.
 
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