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Labyrinth: The Awakening, 2010 – ?» Forums » Rules

Subject: Jihad Bot confusion rss

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JOE LIBRANDI
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Flowchart options include "Poor spaces where Jihad Success Possible". Since the Jihad Bot will never Jihad in Poor spaces, how can a Poor space be an option?
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Adam
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Hi Joe,

You are correct in that the Bot will not attempt Minor Jihad in a Poor space, but it will attempt Major Jihad there. Hope that makes sense.

Adam
 
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JOE LIBRANDI
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nmtadam wrote:
Hi Joe,

You are correct in that the Bot will not attempt Minor Jihad in a Poor space, but it will attempt Major Jihad there. Hope that makes sense.

Adam


But how can Poor spaces be considered for placement/recruitment, etc., if Major Jihad success is not yet possible, and Jihad won't occur?
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Adam
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Hi Joe,

The JSP check is there only to ensure the Bot doesn't waste effort in a country where the net Awakening - Reaction is such that a potential Jihad roll has no chance to succeed (+3 or more).

Adam
 
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Adam
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The Bot will try to get enough cells in a country so that it can attempt Major Jihad on a subsequent card. Does that make sense?
 
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JOE LIBRANDI
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nmtadam wrote:
The Bot will try to get enough cells in a country so that it can attempt Major Jihad on a subsequent card. Does that make sense?


The "JSP" in the box is what makes it confusing because Jihad isn't possible in Poor countries. I've been playing it wrong.

I guess I'll take the action in Poor countries where there are 1-4 cells regardless of the JSP requirement if that's the intent.

Thanks.
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Christian van Someren
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Maybe you should think of it in terms of Major or Minor Jihad. Major Jihad is allowed in Poor countries, therefore Jihad Success is possible in poor countries.

Minor Jihad is not allowed in Poor countries, but (Major) Jihad Success is still possible.
 
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JOE LIBRANDI
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Christianv wrote:
Maybe you should think of it in terms of Major or Minor Jihad. Major Jihad is allowed in Poor countries, therefore Jihad Success is possible in poor countries.

Minor Jihad is not allowed in Poor countries, but (Major) Jihad Success is still possible.


Major Jihad can't occur until there are five or more cells than troops there. This isn't the case most of the time when I'm going through the Jihad Bot flowchart, so JSP is not yet possible: either because a Major Jihad isn't yet possible (because there aren't enough cells), or because Minor Jihad doesn't happen in Poor countries. So I've been skipping over the box.
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Let me quote that flowchart's fragment:

Quote:
Poor Muslim with 1-4 Cells more than TandM where JSP?


I think it's clear that JSP does not consider if a Jihad is legally possible but only if, taking all the applicable modifiers, an hypothetical Jihad operation has any chance to succeed.

So, bear with me and let's assume there's a Poor Country with 1 Troop and 4 Cells: the flowchart will very probably lead you to add Cells to that Country to increase the chance that next time the answer to "Major Jihad at Poor possible?" be positive.
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JOE LIBRANDI
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evacbs wrote:
Let me quote that flowchart's fragment:

Quote:
Poor Muslim with 1-4 Cells more than TandM where JSP?


I think it's clear that JSP does not consider if a Jihad is legally possible but only if, taking all the applicable modifiers, an hypothetical Jihad operation has any chance to succeed.

So, bear with me and let's assume there's a Poor Country with 1 Troop and 4 Cells: the flowchart will very probably lead you to add Cells to that Country to increase the chance that next time the answer to "Major Jihad at Poor possible?" be positive.


Right- but my point is that the other requirement is JSP, and JSP isn't possible at the moment of placement.
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Christian van Someren
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Quote:
Right- but my point is that the other requirement is JSP, and JSP isn't possible at the moment of placement.


Right, I can see why that might be unclear. The way I read things, you should consider whether or not JSP is possible in you placed more cells. You would not consider countries like say, Pakistan with Bhutto (no Jihads allowed) in effect, or a country with 3 Awakening markers.
 
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Håkan Lundgren
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joe6778 wrote:
Major Jihad can't occur until there are five or more cells than troops there. This isn't the case most of the time when I'm going through the Jihad Bot flowchart, so JSP is not yet possible: either because a Major Jihad isn't yet possible (because there aren't enough cells), or because Minor Jihad doesn't happen in Poor countries. So I've been skipping over the box.


I totally agree, my first game was highly skewd due to the sometimes too succinct wording in the flowcharts.
Would I be correct then to play that box like; If more cells are added Major Jihad would be possible, therefore yes?
 
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JSP = Jihad Success Possible

Despite what the OP kept saying, there is absolutely no mention of the type of Jihad, so it simply means right that: with the current number of Troops + Militia, Cells, Awakening and Reaction markers and any other applicable modifier, can a Jihad of any kind be successful?

If the answer is positive, follow the arrow with Yes and see what happens next (if you're in that box which says Poor Muslim with 1-4 more Cells than Tandy where JSP? a positive answer could lead, down the road, to a Travel operation which would add more Cells to that Country and maybe next turn the Jihadist Bot will be able to cause havoc with a Major Jihad, but that's another story).

Flowcharts are written in a concise way, yes, but the golden rule is always the same: don't try to read into the rules what is not there
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Håkan Lundgren
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evacbs wrote:
Despite what the OP kept saying, there is absolutely no mention of the type of Jihad


No, you're right. In the rules it says just that; Jihad. I guess what causes all the confusion (for me anyway) is that in the PACs it just says Jihad (about minor) and then there is Major Jihad so I'd say that some of the confusion is valid.

I can feel that the rules should have been written in such a way that made it really clear that Jihad can be either (or both). I don't know, maybe it does (I may have missed that part) but then that distinction should be reflected everywhere in the rules as well as PACs and cards.

Don't get me wrong, I say all of this with the outmost respect for the designer(s) and I think this game seems really great. I just have to get a little more experience under my belt as I haven't nailed down the routines just yet. Moreover it is that fact, as you mentioned, that one shouldn't read into a lot of stuff that isn't there...

Now that we've cleared this up I will sit down tonight and maybe I can finally play a whole game within a reasonable timeframe.

Cheers!
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