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Subject: Smash Two Dimensions Together rss

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Jem
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Right, again, more of a Secret Wars question, but now that we've all gotten used to SW content, traffic here will be easier to snare...

Smash Two Dimensions features a weird double city where another set of un-named spaces exists above the Rooftops, Streets and Bridge.

(We know the spaces are unnamed because The One True Low said so here : https://www.boardgamegeek.com/article/20004935#20004935)

While people have discussed the potential advantages from pushing enemies on to one track or another, there remain a few questions I'm struggling for answers to:

What happens to Chameleon / Doppelganger?
If they're in the top track, do you still go to the space in the HQ below them? BTW: I assume that both of these villains are effectively powerless in Fragmented Realities?

What happens to Nova Flame / Sandman / the Soul Gem?
Note that the wording isn't the same in all cases - Sandman's attack is "equal to twice the number of villains in the city" and Nova Flame gives "+! Attack for each city space that contains a villain"

If a villain states an ambush effect putting them into an existing named space (e.g. Vulture) then does this over-ride the player's ability to choose the track the villain enters?
We know from rulings regarding Galactus that in the absence of the requisite named city space, these effects are nullified - so we know that this could be quite powerful/useful.

How does Burrow function?
Can Subterranea villains move down from the top "parallel city" track into the main city Streets?

Some of this (points 2&3 mainly) have been discussed a bit here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/thread/1449464/city-smash-two-...
but it's hardly conclusive. Has anyone had any further thought regarding this particular scheme and it's various weirdness? Have SWv2 schemes and other new content shed any more light on this sort of situation?
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Bah, lost Internet for a bit. Best guesses:

Chameleon and Doppleganger are still above the HQ, even if they aren't directly above. Therefore, use the spaces as if they were in the regular city.

Judging by the ruletext for the scheme, Sandman and Soul Gem count only those Villains in their city while Nova counts all city spaces everywhere.

Judging by the ruletext on Charge, Ambush effects happen after entering a city space.

As the top row of spaces have no name, Burrow would indeed move Villains from one city to the other. There is no ruletext otherwise, at least.
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Jem
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TheUbiquitous wrote:
Bah, lost Internet for a bit. Best guesses:

Chameleon and Doppleganger are still above the HQ, even if they aren't directly above. Therefore, use the spaces as if they were in the regular city.

Judging by the ruletext for the scheme, Sandman and Soul Gem count only those Villains in their city while Nova counts all city spaces everywhere.

Judging by the ruletext on Charge, Ambush effects happen after entering a city space.

As the top row of spaces have no name, Burrow would indeed move Villains from one city to the other. There is no ruletext otherwise, at least.

I agree with you on most of this - the only thing I don't really get is cross-dimensional burrowing.

With the Ambush effects, there's a bit of a contradiction there - Vulture jumps straight to the rooftops or bridge, he doesn't enter the sewers (and push the city forward) before making the move, he just enters there. Ergo you can't carry out his Ambush effect after he enters the city (or am I horribly wrong here?) because his Ambush effect specifically affects how he enters the city.
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Stephen Puderbaugh
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Vulture's card says:

Ambush: (After Vulture enters the city) If there is a Villain on the Rooftops or Bridge, swap Vulture with one of those Villains.
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Michael Green
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The FF rulebook defines Burrow as follows:

Quote:
Fight:If the Streets were empty, put this Villain back into the Streets.


In Smash Two Dimensions Together, 'the Streets' exists as a city space (one of six available), so I would suggest that whenever you Fight a Villain with Burrow, you check 'the Streets' and if they are empty, you put them back there. In fragmented realities 'the Streets' do not exist so nothing happens.

I know conceptually, the two cities are supposed to represent separate dimensions so it's seems funny for Burrow to work that way, but there's nothing in the rules to suggest that it can't. The two dimensions are being 'smashed' together after all.
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Jem
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dontfeedthegreen wrote:
The FF rulebook defines Burrow as follows:

Quote:
Fight:If the Streets were empty, put this Villain back into the Streets.


In Smash Two Dimensions Together, 'the Streets' exists as a city space (one of six available), so I would suggest that whenever you Fight a Villain with Burrow, you check 'the Streets' and if they are empty, you put them back there. In fragmented realities 'the Streets' do not exist so nothing happens.

I know conceptually, the two cities are supposed to represent separate dimensions so it's seems funny for Burrow to work that way, but there's nothing in the rules to suggest that it can't. The two dimensions are being 'smashed' together after all.

I suppose that much as it sounds stupid, there isn't anything specified in the scheme that heroic powers which can move powers cannot move them between cities either.

While I'm on that topic - can you use Spinning Cyclone to move villains between Fragmented Realities?
 
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Spinning Cyclone: "You may move a Villain to a new city space. Rescue any Bystanders captured by that Villain. (If you move a Villain to a city space that already has Villain, swap them.)"

By the combination of the logic that Nova gets a super-buff and the logic of this local ruling on Burrow, yes, the Spinning Cyclone is a transdimensional cyclone.

Hypothetically, if the card text added even just the words "in the city" after "a new city space" then that would be enough for me to tilt the meaning back to only moving the Villain around its particular city.

However, I have no actual authority, and perhaps Mr. Devin Low could be summoned! Something that makes a little more sense, though one that is a little less "plain meaning of the card", might be in order, but it would have to come from him.
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Jem
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TheUbiquitous wrote:
However, I have no actual authority, and perhaps Mr. Devin Low could be summoned!

You fetch another goat, I'll sort the pentagram and the candles....

TheUbiquitous wrote:
Something that makes a little more sense, though one that is a little less "plain meaning of the card", might be in order, but it would have to come from him.

In general, The One True Low tends to back the card text as it is written, more than anything "thematic". It makes the rules rather simple to apply but does lead to situations which just seem... illogical - especially in cases like this where some card text pre-dates the inclusion of concepts like multiple cities/realities and un-named city spaces.
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Michael Green
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It is generally simpler to stick to card text than to try and interpret theme though, as it's more objective.

It's usually possible to come up with some sort of thematic explanation for following the card text, eg Storm's Spinning Cyclone knocks a Villain into a dimensional rupture etc etc
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Jem
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Here's another random query then: are the city spaces "adjacent" to the one above or below them?
 
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Michael Green
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Jemjar wrote:
Here's another random query then: are the city spaces "adjacent" to the one above or below them?


Good question. I think it is ambiguous as Scheme Text says the second city is parallel but not does not say whether it is also adjacent.

I would rule no, as you don't have anything to confirm that it is adjacent, and eg I know Mastermind space is not considered adjacent to the Bridge.
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Mike Runnestrand
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dontfeedthegreen wrote:
I know Mastermind space is not considered adjacent to the Bridge.


Did we ever get an official ruling on that?
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