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Subject: Challenge for Drew (and others) rss

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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?
 
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Robert Wesley
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"CHALLENGED!" Yes, and could you 'chew gum' while you "cross the Highway" with a 'chicken' under your arm? NO: "maths"; at least. whistle
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jeremy cobert
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einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.

The cameras went up anyway.

But later my group exposed that the city was exempting their own vehicles. We also got a local attorney to challenge it at the state level. The ruling went in our favor on the interstate. The tickets have been found to be in violation of Iowa law until they replace the warning signs. The signs are too close to the cameras and it helped wipe out previous tickets.

We also promoted how not to pay your violations because the city cant legally do anything about it.We are still causing thorns in the side of the Republican mayor. who has his eye on running for Governor.

http://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/no-threat-behind-i-380-speedi...
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Junior McSpiffy
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I took up the office of precinct chair, hoping to have a voice of some sort in the local party. Turns out that one voice in a thousand is about as effective as one voice in a million. It went nowhere. But once my daughter becomes a bit more self-sufficient and not such a drain on my energy, I may try again.
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Robert Wesley
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How about VOTE OUT the 'incumbents'? I'm doing 'moi' part, and what about yours? NO!
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Junior McSpiffy
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GROGnads wrote:
How about VOTE OUT the 'incumbents'? I'm doing 'moi' part, and what about yours? NO!


But remember, the problem is always everyone else's incumbent. Drain the swamp.... except your own little patch of pussywillows can stay. Those look nice.
 
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Walking on eggshells is not my style
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jeremycobert wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.

The cameras went up anyway.

But later my group exposed that the city was exempting their own vehicles. We also got a local attorney to challenge it at the state level. The ruling went in our favor on the interstate. The tickets have been found to be in violation of Iowa law until they replace the warning signs. The signs are too close to the cameras and it helped wipe out previous tickets.

We also promoted how not to pay your violations because the city cant legally do anything about it.We are still causing thorns in the side of the Republican mayor. who has his eye on running for Governor.

http://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/no-threat-behind-i-380-speedi...


Pffff. Everyone does that.
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Grand Admiral Thrawn
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jeremycobert wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.


Nice! Sounds like our small towns in NJ!
 
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Eric Tama
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Iowa
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jeremycobert wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.

The cameras went up anyway.

But later my group exposed that the city was exempting their own vehicles. We also got a local attorney to challenge it at the state level. The ruling went in our favor on the interstate. The tickets have been found to be in violation of Iowa law until they replace the warning signs. The signs are too close to the cameras and it helped wipe out previous tickets.

We also promoted how not to pay your violations because the city cant legally do anything about it.We are still causing thorns in the side of the Republican mayor. who has his eye on running for Governor.

http://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/no-threat-behind-i-380-speedi...


So you helped other people break the law. I've never gotten a ticket driving through CR because I don't drive fast enough to trigger a camera.
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Robert Wesley
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GameCrossing wrote:
But remember, the problem is always everyone else's incumbent. Drain the swamp.... except your own little patch of pussywillows can stay. Those look nice.
shake How many Independents are causing the ongoing Congressional 'impasse'? Yeah, so it is YOURS at the 'root' for their 'problems', but, oh no, you'll BLAME them others.
 
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jeremy cobert
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Eric_Tama wrote:
So you helped other people break the law.


Sure I guess ? I help protect poor people from a regressive tax. A fee that they get convicted of before they get found guilty of and without any chance to confront their accuser. The exact opposite of how most trials work.

I guess that makes me a monster to you statists.

Eric_Tama wrote:
I've never gotten a ticket driving through CR because I don't drive fast enough to trigger a camera.


Right, you never speed or forget to signal or cross over a solid yellow line. You should volunteer to get a gps/camera system hooked up to your car in the name of safety ! that way if you do commit any of these grievous errors, the state will send you a friendly reminder in the form of a monetary donation on your part. After all , if you have nothing to hide !

Bitch please, after doing this for seven years now, I have heard every stupid statist answer.

My favorite from you ass hats is "dont break the law and you wont get a ticket" And then we busted the city for "guessing" when the plates were unclear and they sent tickets to people who had never been in this area. Fuck you sheeple.
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Moshe Callen
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jeremycobert wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.

The cameras went up anyway.

But later my group exposed that the city was exempting their own vehicles. We also got a local attorney to challenge it at the state level. The ruling went in our favor on the interstate. The tickets have been found to be in violation of Iowa law until they replace the warning signs. The signs are too close to the cameras and it helped wipe out previous tickets.

We also promoted how not to pay your violations because the city cant legally do anything about it.We are still causing thorns in the side of the Republican mayor. who has his eye on running for Governor.

http://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/no-threat-behind-i-380-speedi...

In spite of the negative comments someone made up thread, this to me seems like jeremycobert (whom I've no particular reason to disbelieve) doing exactly what folks so often advocate for in a democracy. He went out and did something he perceived as a problem in the community using the democratic process.

As for the criticism he helped others break the law, I cannot but see how what he did was civil disobedience in accordance with the best liberal democratic tradition. He thought an action by his local gov't was unjust, spoke out against it, etc., and in the end he got it overturned in court. Is that not the democratic way?
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Michael Pustilnik
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jeremycobert wrote:

A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.


I don't think machines should find people guilty of violations. I detest red light cameras, and IMHO Jeremy and his fellow citizens did a fine thing here.
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Junior McSpiffy
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GROGnads wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
But remember, the problem is always everyone else's incumbent. Drain the swamp.... except your own little patch of pussywillows can stay. Those look nice.
shake How many Independents are causing the ongoing Congressional 'impasse'? Yeah, so it is YOURS at the 'root' for their 'problems', but, oh no, you'll BLAME them others.


You keep labeling me as an independent. I'm not. I'm GOP, lifelong. But for three tries in the last eight years, the GOP has been incapable of even coming close to nominating someone I can vote for. Making a choice for president doesn't define who I am. I still vote right/GOP in large swaths down the ballot. If the GOP comes to its senses and starts nominating presidential candidates who appeal to a broader population, I'd be all for it. If a third party comes along and becomes viable while appealing to the broader middle base, that'd be fine too. I'd jump ship and switch parties. I don't care which one happens. I just know that right now in the political landscape we have today, an Eisenhower Republican like myself has no home.

Pulling one lever one time for a single Libertarian for the first time in my life doesn't make me a Libertarian.
 
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Robert Wesley
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surprise Hold on, since 'moi' NEVER considered YOU specifically as "independent minded", while. why had YOU yet 'further confused' yourself "as" SUCH, then? shake
 
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Robert Stuart
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jeremycobert wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.

The cameras went up anyway.

But later my group exposed that the city was exempting their own vehicles. We also got a local attorney to challenge it at the state level. The ruling went in our favor on the interstate. The tickets have been found to be in violation of Iowa law until they replace the warning signs. The signs are too close to the cameras and it helped wipe out previous tickets.

We also promoted how not to pay your violations because the city cant legally do anything about it.We are still causing thorns in the side of the Republican mayor. who has his eye on running for Governor.

http://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/no-threat-behind-i-380-speedi...


Bad move. What your lawyer should have argued instead was that all vehicles -- government and, yes, police too -- should be required to pay the fine. And that fines for police and government vehicles should be triple the normal fines (since these are government-imposed fines government officials and those hired to enforce the law should be held to a stricter standard than us ordinary folk).
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Christopher Seguin
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bob_santafe wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
einsteinidahosu wrote:
Drew, you always say that we as citizens cheapen the culture and discourse by saying "everybody does it", therefore allowing politicians to be more and more corrupt and unethical. So, what have you personally done to change this pattern, not counting talking about it on the internet?


A few years back our police chief ran the idea to setup red light cameras for "safety". I was one of 3 people who attended the initial meetings. I did the local talk show circuit, setup a group webpage and facebook group to show people this was about revenue and a regressive tax that hurts the poor. I setup group meeting and organized protests and took advantage of the rules for speaking at city council meetings.

The cameras went up anyway.

But later my group exposed that the city was exempting their own vehicles. We also got a local attorney to challenge it at the state level. The ruling went in our favor on the interstate. The tickets have been found to be in violation of Iowa law until they replace the warning signs. The signs are too close to the cameras and it helped wipe out previous tickets.

We also promoted how not to pay your violations because the city cant legally do anything about it.We are still causing thorns in the side of the Republican mayor. who has his eye on running for Governor.

http://cbs2iowa.com/news/local/no-threat-behind-i-380-speedi...


Bad move. What your lawyer should have argued instead was that all vehicles -- government and, yes, police too -- should be required to pay the fine. And that fines for police and government vehicles should be triple the normal fines (since these are government-imposed fines government officials and those hired to enforce the law should be held to a stricter standard than us ordinary folk).


Yeah, but that's just saying that a "bad law" (or enforcement thereof) is okay, as long as the government people breaking that "bad law" pay treble damages.

It's the bad law that needs addressed, not the enforcement. Cobert did it right.
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Dwayne Hendrickson
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Being a hard core Conservative, I applaude Jeremy's actions. He did the right thing, stood up to the law he felt was wrong, took action on several levels and didn't roll over.

All I have ever done was get a local law changed to legalize 'fat boy' canoes.
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rekinom
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I can't compare with Jeremy at all, but here we go...

My union president decided that he didn't have to tell people that they had the legal option to opt out of paying the political portion of their dues. Prior to this, every year a letter went out to each member letting them know the deadline and how to opt out. So I made up my own letter and sent it to every member of the union. Most people didn't even notice, thinking it came from him, but it pissed him off and the next year he send the opt-out notices like he was supposed to.

When I get to retirement age, I plan on revoking my union dues payroll deduction and force the union to try to get me fired.
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Moshe Callen
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bjlillo wrote:
Whenever someone says "everyone does it", I shoot them right in their stupid face.

Where do you bury your bodies?
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Sam I am
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whac3 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Whenever someone says "everyone does it", I shoot them right in their stupid face.

Where do you bury your bodies?


The same place HRC does.
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Wendell
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rcbevco wrote:
whac3 wrote:
bjlillo wrote:
Whenever someone says "everyone does it", I shoot them right in their stupid face.

Where do you bury your bodies?


The same place HRC does.


Getting crowded there.
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G L
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Answering direct questions is really not Drew's jam.
 
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Eric Tama
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jeremycobert wrote:
Eric_Tama wrote:
So you helped other people break the law.


Sure I guess ? I help protect poor people from a regressive tax. A fee that they get convicted of before they get found guilty of and without any chance to confront their accuser. The exact opposite of how most trials work.

I guess that makes me a monster to you statists.

Eric_Tama wrote:
I've never gotten a ticket driving through CR because I don't drive fast enough to trigger a camera.


Right, you never speed or forget to signal or cross over a solid yellow line. You should volunteer to get a gps/camera system hooked up to your car in the name of safety ! that way if you do commit any of these grievous errors, the state will send you a friendly reminder in the form of a monetary donation on your part. After all , if you have nothing to hide !

Bitch please, after doing this for seven years now, I have heard every stupid statist answer.

My favorite from you ass hats is "dont break the law and you wont get a ticket" And then we busted the city for "guessing" when the plates were unclear and they sent tickets to people who had never been in this area. Fuck you sheeple.


The camera only triggers if people are driving at least 10 mph over the speed limit. My opinion is the only time people should drive 10 mph or more over speed limit is when they are passing on a 2 lane road or if it is an emergency in which case a ticket is the least of their problems. I-380 is no 2 lane highway. My language was very specific, I said I don't drive fast enough to trigger the camera but you take that as if I said all these other things? Why do you think people should drive significantly faster than the speed limit? I'm careful whenever I'm on 380 because that road has a lot of crashes. Those tickets are subject to the same appeal process that tickets given by officers are and are easier to fight so I don't know what the big deal is. CR could use the money, y'all need to dredge that river.
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Andy Beaton
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Eric_Tama wrote:
jeremycobert wrote:
Eric_Tama wrote:
So you helped other people break the law.


Sure I guess ? I help protect poor people from a regressive tax. A fee that they get convicted of before they get found guilty of and without any chance to confront their accuser. The exact opposite of how most trials work.

I guess that makes me a monster to you statists.

Eric_Tama wrote:
I've never gotten a ticket driving through CR because I don't drive fast enough to trigger a camera.


Right, you never speed or forget to signal or cross over a solid yellow line. You should volunteer to get a gps/camera system hooked up to your car in the name of safety ! that way if you do commit any of these grievous errors, the state will send you a friendly reminder in the form of a monetary donation on your part. After all , if you have nothing to hide !

Bitch please, after doing this for seven years now, I have heard every stupid statist answer.

My favorite from you ass hats is "dont break the law and you wont get a ticket" And then we busted the city for "guessing" when the plates were unclear and they sent tickets to people who had never been in this area. Fuck you sheeple.


The camera only triggers if people are driving at least 10 mph over the speed limit. My opinion is the only time people should drive 10 mph or more over speed limit is when they are passing on a 2 lane road or if it is an emergency in which case a ticket is the least of their problems. I-380 is no 2 lane highway. My language was very specific, I said I don't drive fast enough to trigger the camera but you take that as if I said all these other things? Why do you think people should drive significantly faster than the speed limit? I'm careful whenever I'm on 380 because that road has a lot of crashes. Those tickets are subject to the same appeal process that tickets given by officers are and are easier to fight so I don't know what the big deal is. CR could use the money, y'all need to dredge that river.


I'm entirely in favour of speed cameras, but I gave Jeremy a thumb for actually engaging in the process to get what he thought was right. So much better than seizing wildlife sanctuaries.
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