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War of the Ring (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Questions on Gandalf and Healing rss

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Genestealer Patriarch
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A couple of questions from the game we just had:

1) Gandalf the Grey is in the Fellowship. FP spends an event die to Play a card which separates some companions. He separates Gandalf. Does Gandalf's special rule let him draw another event card before he leaves, or does Gandalf's absence happen first? We played that he could draw the card.

2) The Fellowship is uncorrupted and is several spaces on the movement track. The Balrog of Moria card is in play. The Fellowship declares in Lorien, moving through Moria. SP draws a 2 tile and the FSP takes 2 corruption. Can the FSP now heal 1 corruption? Thematically the damage happened in Moria, before they reached Lorien, so I'd have thought they could heal. However if healing is immediate upon declaring, would they get it?
Same in reverse, if the FSP is on 11 corruption and declares in Lorien, do they get to heal before the SP gets to draw tiles?
Presumably only one of these cases is allowed...
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David Williams
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Patriarchxyz wrote:
1) Gandalf the Grey is in the Fellowship. FP spends an event die to Play a card which separates some companions. He separates Gandalf. Does Gandalf's special rule let him draw another event card before he leaves, or does Gandalf's absence happen first? We played that he could draw the card.


My understanding is that he still gets to draw a card, however the first card is fully resolved first. So you cannot decide who to separate based on the second card drawn (for example if you were only going to separate Gandalf, but then draw a card requiring Boromir to be in Gondor, you cannot then decide he will separate as well).

That's my understanding, and the best support I can find it this thread by Kevin Chapman: https://boardgamegeek.com/article/17729611#17729611

He doesn't seem 100% sure here, so maybe he will chime in and confirm it 100% here? But hopefully that's enough to help you until he does.


Quote:
2) The Fellowship is uncorrupted and is several spaces on the movement track. The Balrog of Moria card is in play. The Fellowship declares in Lorien, moving through Moria. SP draws a 2 tile and the FSP takes 2 corruption. Can the FSP now heal 1 corruption? Thematically the damage happened in Moria, before they reached Lorien, so I'd have thought they could heal. However if healing is immediate upon declaring, would they get it?
Same in reverse, if the FSP is on 11 corruption and declares in Lorien, do they get to heal before the SP gets to draw tiles?
Presumably only one of these cases is allowed...


Again, my understanding is that the declaration will be completed first, and then the card will resolve. The Balrog card does say 'has been declared' in the final paragraph suggesting the declaration already occurred.

Thematically this is a bit odd (it seems the Balrog caught them after they arrived in Lorien?!) but I think it's how the rules would handle it, because the card can only be played after the FS declares. Otherwise, they haven't declared yet but are 'going to declare' and it seems a bit self-contradictory.

So in the first instance the FS cannot heal, but in the second case they will survive (though if they have 11 corruption declaring in Lorien they are in some pretty serious trouble and better hope things are going well militarily!).
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David Williams
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The only extra justification I have for the Balrog rule is that the Minion card in Lords of Middle Earth states:

'If the Fellowship was declared....'.

It's a different card of course, but I believe this is intended to be exactly the same effect but with minor revision for clarifications. And with that card, it seems clear the tile is drawn after the declaration.

Sorry I don't have better evidence; hopefully Kevin or another rules guru can clear this one up as well.
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Kevin Chapman
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Orion3T wrote:
He doesn't seem 100% sure here, so maybe he will chime in and confirm it 100% here?

Confirmed.
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Kevin Chapman
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Regarding the timing of declaration and Hunt tile draws, sometimes the results can be a bit unthematic. However, in many cases it would be too awkward to try to sequence the events in a "chronological" fashion, so we let the game mechanics determine the sequence of events for clarity and ease of resolution.
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Genestealer Patriarch
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Thanks everyone. Clears both of those up.
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Tony M
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I wanted to revisit the topic of an undamaged fellowship traveling undetected from Rivendell to Lorien while the base game Balrog of Moria is in play. I recently had this occur and did a web search for an answer and found two threads with different answers.

This thread indicates the correct order of play is:

Current Ruling

1) Declare & Heal
2) Draw Hunt Tile from Balrog

Thus, no healing is possible.

However it was previously asked here:
Balrogs & Strongholds

and the answer provided was that the damage from the hunt tile was incurred "on the way" to Lorien.
Original Ruling
1) Declare
2) The damage is incurred "en route"
3) The fellowship can heal upon arrival to Lorien.

I understand the original ruling is from first edition, but to the best of my knowledge, the Balrog card text didn't change.

I would argue in favor of the original as it fits with theme better as well as the card text states "You may discard "Balrog of Moria" to draw and additional hunt tile if the Fellowship moves into, out of or through Moria while being declared or revealed" which implies that the hunt effect occurs as the fellowship piece moves, not after it arrives in Lorien.

Anyways, I wanted to double check which of the two interpretations is correct.
 
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Kevin Chapman
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This one is. The Rulebook states on page 39 that the point of Corruption is "immediately" removed upon declaring the Fellowship. It also states on page 41 that "When the Free Peoples player declares the Fellowship, certain abilities and events may force him to draw a Hunt Tile. When this happens, ignore any Reveal icon on the drawn tile if the Fellowship has been declared in a Free Peoples Stronghold or City controlled by the Free Peoples" (italics are mine), indicating that the draw occurs after the declaration. The "while being declared or revealed" on the card refers to the movement of the Fellowship, not timing of the tile draw.
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