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Subject: Five questions. rss

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Steve
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A few rules questions.
1] I assume an AO can refuel ships even when it is Disrupted [by Maint.], correct?

2]Does being disrupted have any effect on a TR [other than weakening its shields]?

3] Can a player who wants to disengage move some of his Ftrs onto a MS at the end of a combat round or the start of the one when he will let the enemy fire and then run? So, can he leave a Ftr behind and leave with some? Or, must he leave all Ftr behind? Or, must he load all onto a MS and let the enemy fire at it?

4] Can ships that can't disengage [for example a Mon.] fire in the combat round that your other ships can't fire before they can run away?

5] To upgrade an OP [at a Primary system] into a World, must the Peace be 5+ turns long? Or, are 2-3 different periods of peace that total 5 turns enough? I think I saw where Mr. Miller said that 2 or 3 periods of peace [5+ turns] are enough to do it.

 
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Paolo Desalvo
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Hi Steve,
Steve1501 wrote:
A few rules questions.
1] I assume an AO can refuel ships even when it is Disrupted [by Maint.], correct?

I quote the rule book:
Quote:
Frontier maintenance [...] The owning player must roll one die for each starship: if the result is equal to or greater than the ship's maintenance maintenance number, maintenance has been successfully performed.

The AOs have maintenance number of 1 so, unless you decide so, they will never be in disrupted state since they will always pass the maintenance roll.

Steve1501 wrote:
2]Does being disrupted have any effect on a TR [other than weakening its shields]?

Even the TRs have maintenance number of 1 and will always pass the maintenance roll.

Steve1501 wrote:
3] Can a player who wants to disengage move some of his Ftrs onto a MS at the end of a combat round or the start of the one when he will let the enemy fire and then run? So, can he leave a Ftr behind and leave with some? Or, must he leave all Ftr behind? Or, must he load all onto a MS and let the enemy fire at it?

I quote the rules again:
Quote:
Either side may elect to break off an engagement [...] Immediately after range determination, a player indicates that he is breaking off. All forces remain in combat for the current combat round but may not fire.
At the end of the turn, all surviving starship capable of jump space then jump out of the hex. [...].
Ships which cannot perform hyperspace jumps (monitor, fighters, reaction forces that have already jumped three times, and disrupted starship unable to make the required roll) are left behind to carry on the battle alone. When breaking off is performed, all ships capable of breaking off do so; all other remain.

Fighters remains.

Steve1501 wrote:
4] Can ships that can't disengage [for example a Mon.] fire in the combat round that your other ships can't fire before they can run away?

As per the quote above, they do it.

Steve1501 wrote:
5] To upgrade an OP [at a Primary system] into a World, must the Peace be 5+ turns long? Or, are 2-3 different periods of peace that total 5 turns enough? I think I saw where Mr. Miller said that 2 or 3 periods of peace [5+ turns] are enough to do it.

I don't remember it, but if exists I would be glad to see that quote, and the others made in that or any other occasion.
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Steve
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BlackSheeper wrote:
Hi Steve,
Steve1501 wrote:
A few rules questions.
1] I assume an AO can refuel ships even when it is Disrupted [by Maint.], correct?

I quote the rule book:
Quote:
Frontier maintenance [...] The owning player must roll one die for each starship: if the result is equal to or greater than the ship's maintenance maintenance number, maintenance has been successfully performed.

The AOs have maintenance number of 1 so, unless you decide so, they will never be in disrupted state since they will always pass the maintenance roll.

Steve1501 wrote:
2]Does being disrupted have any effect on a TR [other than weakening its shields]?

Even the TRs have maintenance number of 1 and will always pass the maintenance roll.

Steve1501 wrote:
3] Can a player who wants to disengage move some of his Ftrs onto a MS at the end of a combat round or the start of the one when he will let the enemy fire and then run? So, can he leave a Ftr behind and leave with some? Or, must he leave all Ftr behind? Or, must he load all onto a MS and let the enemy fire at it?

I quote the rules again:
Quote:
Either side may elect to break off an engagement [...] Immediately after range determination, a player indicates that he is breaking off. All forces remain in combat for the current combat round but may not fire.
At the end of the turn, all surviving starship capable of jump space then jump out of the hex. [...].
Ships which cannot perform hyperspace jumps (monitor, fighters, reaction forces that have already jumped three times, and disrupted starship unable to make the required roll) are left behind to carry on the battle alone. When breaking off is performed, all ships capable of breaking off do so; all other remain.

Fighters remains.

Steve1501 wrote:
4] Can ships that can't disengage [for example a Mon.] fire in the combat round that your other ships can't fire before they can run away?

As per the quote above, they do it.

Steve1501 wrote:
5] To upgrade an OP [at a Primary system] into a World, must the Peace be 5+ turns long? Or, are 2-3 different periods of peace that total 5 turns enough? I think I saw where Mr. Miller said that 2 or 3 periods of peace [5+ turns] are enough to do it.

I don't remember it, but if exists I would be glad to see that quote, and the others made in that or any other occasion.

Thanks for the reply.

1] & 2] A and TR can be disrupted if they are not at an OP and roll a 1. Then the roll is decreased by 1 for not being at an OP and that makes the modified roll be 0 and that is not equal to or greater than their M# =1. I admit the TR is rarely effected, but the AO is often sitting at Sirius and will have to roll there.

3] You didn't respond to the question. The rule there doesn't talk about when you can load or launch Ftrs.

4] The rule seems to say that Mon. can't fire when they are left behind, but that doesn't make much sense. I'm wondering how you-all feel about this.

5] I'll look for it. I think it is in a reply here in BGG somewhere.
I haven't found it yet.
Now I did!


gurubob wrote:
I checked with Marc
as splitting peace turns across multiple interwar phases seemed a bit fishy..


Marc Miller January 9 or 10, 2011 at 3:19am
"Good question. Off the top of my head, I think the turns of peace need to be consecutive."


But, the rule seems to say "for 5 turns of peace" without the 'consecutive' in there.

So, do we go with the RaW or the 3am mutterings of Marc?

 
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Paolo Desalvo
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Steve1501 wrote:
BlackSheeper wrote:
Hi Steve,
Steve1501 wrote:
A few rules questions.
1] I assume an AO can refuel ships even when it is Disrupted [by Maint.], correct?

I quote the rule book:
Quote:
Frontier maintenance [...] The owning player must roll one die for each starship: if the result is equal to or greater than the ship's maintenance maintenance number, maintenance has been successfully performed.

The AOs have maintenance number of 1 so, unless you decide so, they will never be in disrupted state since they will always pass the maintenance roll.

Steve1501 wrote:
2]Does being disrupted have any effect on a TR [other than weakening its shields]?

Even the TRs have maintenance number of 1 and will always pass the maintenance roll.

Steve1501 wrote:
3] Can a player who wants to disengage move some of his Ftrs onto a MS at the end of a combat round or the start of the one when he will let the enemy fire and then run? So, can he leave a Ftr behind and leave with some? Or, must he leave all Ftr behind? Or, must he load all onto a MS and let the enemy fire at it?

I quote the rules again:
Quote:
Either side may elect to break off an engagement [...] Immediately after range determination, a player indicates that he is breaking off. All forces remain in combat for the current combat round but may not fire.
At the end of the turn, all surviving starship capable of jump space then jump out of the hex. [...].
Ships which cannot perform hyperspace jumps (monitor, fighters, reaction forces that have already jumped three times, and disrupted starship unable to make the required roll) are left behind to carry on the battle alone. When breaking off is performed, all ships capable of breaking off do so; all other remain.

Fighters remains.

Steve1501 wrote:
4] Can ships that can't disengage [for example a Mon.] fire in the combat round that your other ships can't fire before they can run away?

As per the quote above, they do it.

Steve1501 wrote:
5] To upgrade an OP [at a Primary system] into a World, must the Peace be 5+ turns long? Or, are 2-3 different periods of peace that total 5 turns enough? I think I saw where Mr. Miller said that 2 or 3 periods of peace [5+ turns] are enough to do it.

I don't remember it, but if exists I would be glad to see that quote, and the others made in that or any other occasion.

Thanks for the reply.

1] & 2] A and TR can be disrupted if they are not at an OP and roll a 1. Then the roll is decreased by for not being at an OP and that makes the modified roll be 0 and that is not equal to or greater than their M# =1. I admit the TR is rarely effected, but the AO is often sitting at Sirius and will have to roll there.


You are right, but I think that this case won't happen often for transports. As long as the AO sitting in Sirius, it can refuel other ships since the disrupted ships "are hindered in their ability to conduct hyperspace jumps and to conduct combat". Producing fuel is not hyperspace jumping not conducting combat.

Steve1501 wrote:
3] You didn't respond to the question. The rule there doesn't talk about when you can load or launch Ftrs.

This morning I was in a hurry and I checked only the rule directly dealing with the disengagement. This afternoon I had some more time and I went to check in the ships' descriptions and I found that the rule on motherships says when you can launch and retrieve fighters:

Quote:
A mothership may launch or retrieve fighters at the beginning of each space combat round.

So you can recover the fighter in the moment you decide to flee. The fighters that can't be recovered remain to fight.

Steve1501 wrote:
4] The rule seems to say that Mon. can't fire when they are left behind, but that doesn't make much sense. I'm wondering how you-all feel about this.

The rule says that the ships unable to jump "are left behind to carry on the battle alone". This means that they can fight.

Steve1501 wrote:
5] I'll look for it. I think it is in a reply here in BGG somewhere.

Good.
 
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Ethan McKinney
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Rules as written, units that can't disengage can't fire. This could be a design decision to prevent cheap fighter from screening retreating ships, or it could be an oversight. I'd house rule that they can fire.

Rules as written, insignificant effects on AO and TR.
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Steve
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elbmc1969 wrote:
Rules as written, units that can't disengage can't fire. This could be a design decision to prevent cheap fighter from screening retreating ships, or it could be an oversight. I'd house rule that they can fire.

Rules as written, insignificant effects on AO and TR.

My house rule would be that all your ships can be fired at [unless screened in the normal way, and ships that can't run can't fire normally.

I edited that to reverse my opinion because I realized that if the stay behind ships can fire then they might destroy all the enemy ships and then why would the running ships not stop and not make the jump away?

If the winning side can't be fired at for that 1 round then the running ships have to run to avoid the enemy ships. And I really think that this was the designers original intention as a gamey element.

 
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Paolo Desalvo
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elbmc1969 wrote:
Rules as written, units that can't disengage can't fire. This could be a design decision to prevent cheap fighter from screening retreating ships, or it could be an oversight. I'd house rule that they can fire.

Rules, as written, are divided in two parts, the first says:
Quote:
Either sides my elect to break off an engagement [...]. Immediately after range determination, a player indicates that he is breaking off. All forces remain in combat for the current combat round but may not fire.
The second is the following:
Quote:
Ships which cannot perform hyperspace jumps ( [...] ) are left behind to carry on the battle alone. [...]

This means that the ships going to jump off won't fight, the ones remaining will do it. As it is shown in the Dragon #20 article "Rules Clarifications and Addenda for Imperium" by Marc Miller, sometimes rules are split i different sections or paragraphs, so you have to put together all the part of the puzzle.

elbmc1969 wrote:
Rules as written, insignificant effects on AO and TR.

This is clear.
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Ethan McKinney
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"Left behind to carry on the fight alone" <> allowed to fire this round. The simple meaning is that they do not disengage, so the battle (usually) continues. (The left-behind units might all be destroyed in the disengagement round.)
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Steve
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I found this in a thread here in "Rules". Last one as of now. "A few questions after a 1st game," or something like that.

The question was, "Do the 5 turns of peace to upgrade an OP into a World have to be consecutive?"

gurubob wrote:
I checked with Marc
as splitting peace turns across multiple interwar phases seemed a bit fishy.


Marc Miller, [January 9 or 10, 2011 at 3:19am]
"Good question. Off the top of my head, I think the turns of peace need to be consecutive."

But, the rule seems to say "for 5 turns of peace" without the 'consecutive' in there.
 
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Was George Orwell an Optimist?
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Steve1501 wrote:
I found this in a thread here in "Rules". Last one as of now. "A few questions after a 1st game," or something like that.

Do you not understand how to post a link? If not, see here: https://www.boardgamegeek.com/wiki/page/Forum_Formatting#toc...

Steve1501 wrote:

The question was, "Do the 5 turns of peace to upgrade an OP into a World have to be consecutive?"

gurubob wrote:
I checked with Marc
as splitting peace turns across multiple interwar phases seemed a bit fishy.


Marc Miller, [January 9 or 10, 2011 at 3:19am]
"Good question. Off the top of my head, I think the turns of peace need to be consecutive."

But, the rule seems to say "for 5 turns of peace" without the 'consecutive' in there.

Doctors tell you that if you quit smoking for a certain number of years the damage abates. They don't say 'consecutive' years, but try telling your doctor that you want to count the years from a previous time when you quit smoking.

Seriously, you mentioned the designer's intent earlier as if it had some meaning for you. Now you've seen what the designer thinks; maybe it's time to accept it? Or put it in your variant the way you'd like it to be.

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Paolo Desalvo
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One more thing, if someone has argued on one of your reply don't modify it, adding a new info as you did in reply 24087533, since can be that people doesn't find it nice.
 
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