$30.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
10 Posts

Imperium» Forums » Rules

Subject: Where does the Imperial place lost ships on the turn record chart? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve
Thailand
flag msg tools
My 1st Ed. copy of the rules says that "At the end of each Player Turn the Imperial Player places his star ships that were lost that turn on the Turn Record Chart so that one will appear per turn."

Way back in the 70s we played it that in the 1st War the Imp. Player could place a ship on the Turn Record chart to arrive in the 1st game turn. Some people seem to think that this is wrong.

1] Did the 2nd Ed. rule book have a different wording? I would be happy to go with it if it does.

2] If not, then why can't the Imp. Player do that? It does seem sort of hinky to allow a ship lost in the Terran 2nd Move Phase to be replaced before the start of the Imp. 1st Move Phase of his 1st Player Turn, but that is what the rules seem to say.

Maybe the rule should have been "at the end of each game turn", instead of "each Player Turn", but the 1st Ed. rule isn't.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kent Reuber
United States
San Mateo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Second edition text wrote:
At the end of each player turn all lmperial starships (but not other forces) which were eliminated during the player turn are placed on the Turn Record Chart so that one will appear per turn. These starships should be placed invertedto note that they are imperial replacements. While the Imperial player may select the order in which they are placed on the Turn Record Chart, future losses to be replaced must be placed on turns after the current replacements. As this procedure creates a backlog of replacements, the Imperial player may elect to scrap any of his replacements before they appear and move all replacements forward to fill the gaps. The appearance of replacements may not be reshuffled or their order redistributed after they are placed on the chart.


The way we played it, assuming that it's turn 1, was for the Imperium player to create a line of destroyed ships on the turn track, one on turn 2, one turn 3, etc. As the Imperium player, I usually tried to get my Heavy Cruiser destroyed (bonus: you don't have to maintain it), then scrap all ships ahead of it so that the Heavy Cruiser is replaced every turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
Thailand
flag msg tools
So, it looks like the 2 Eds. are exactly the same.

The rule's wording seems to allow you to put 1 ship in the current turn if the 1st player is the enemy and he destroys a ship.

But, that most players don't allow that.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan McKinney
United States
El Segundo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
A player turn is part of a game turn. If it doesn't specify player turn, it's not a player turn.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
Thailand
flag msg tools
Second edition text wrote:
At the end of each player turn all lmperial starships (but not other forces) which were eliminated during the player turn are placed on the Turn Record Chart so that one will appear per turn. These starships should be placed invertedto note that they are imperial replacements. While the Imperial player may select the order in which they are placed on the Turn Record Chart, future losses to be replaced must be placed on turns after the current replacements. As this procedure creates a backlog of replacements, the Imperial player may elect to scrap any of his replacements before they appear and move all replacements forward to fill the gaps. The appearance of replacements may not be reshuffled or their order redistributed after they are placed on the chart.


Ethan, but it does say "player turn". See above where I made it bold.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan McKinney
United States
El Segundo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
No, it as that you [b]place [\b] them at the end of every player turn. It has to say end of the player turn a) so that the Imperial player gets to choose the order in which they appear (it's not just the order in which they are destroyed) and b) so that you don't accumulate them for the full turn and then place them all (you have two pools placed at different times).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
Thailand
flag msg tools
elbmc1969 wrote:
No, it says that you place them at the end of every player turn. It has to say end of the player turn a) so that the Imperial player gets to choose the order in which they appear (it's not just the order in which they are destroyed) and b) so that you don't accumulate them for the full turn and then place them all (you have two pools placed at different times).

No, it doesn't need to say Player-turn, it could also have said "at the end of the Combat Phase". If it said Combat Phase then you would not accumulate them for all the Player-turn and then I would be more inclined to let you place 1 in the turn you are in. But, since the biggest ship* that you lose might be lost in the last Combat Phase of the Player-turn and this is at or near the end of the 2 years of the full turn, it makes no sense for the Emperor to give you a ship before you lose it to be replaced at or near the very start of the 2 year span of the turn.


. * . Remember we are talking about just 1 ship no matter what. Only the single biggest ship can be placed on the turn track in the current turn.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan McKinney
United States
El Segundo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Steve, I'm not talking about all the different rules that could have been written. I'm only interested in why the RAW has to be worded as it is to produce particular effects.

The RAW is pretty clear--you can get ships destroyed in the second enemy combat phase back almost immediately. So what? The Emperor just sends you an existing ship as a replacement. No need for a new one to be built. Heck, it can come from the fleet in the provice just coreward of this one and get back-filled from there. Not far away at all. The time element is up in the air as well: the idea that the two player turns are each three months long is obviously an abstraction. Even if we assume that the main movement/combat phases are three months long (the reaction phases are obviously much shorter), a ship could easily be destroyed two months before the end of the quarter and then spend the first two months of the next quarter moving to its new fleet and moving forward in an offensive. Heck, in Traveller terms that would be 17 or 18 hyperspace jumps. Keep in mind that a full quarter is only 13 hyperspace jumps. Pleanty of time for a ship to move forward and participate in an offensive.

Finally, consider that a capital ship coulld be placed for the next full turn under your interpretation (you can't get the replacement in the current game turn). RAW, capital ships take two turns to build. I know that you want to change that, but it certainly suggests that the timing of replacements is not simply about how long they actually take to arrive.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
Thailand
flag msg tools
Ethan, I actually usually played it the way you see it.

The thing is, 3 out of 4 players disagreed and just assumed that it meant "not in the current game turn".

I was just going with the overwhelming majority.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ethan McKinney
United States
El Segundo
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
Just Just another thing I really want to ask Miller and/or Chadwick: "Hey, do you remember how you played ... ?"
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.