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Subject: Rule question Hunt for Gollum/tips needed rss

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Wouter Boon
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Hi everyone,

Just started with HfG adventurepack. Tried it a couple of times last days. Playing two handed solo. Getting beaten every single time, even before I finish quest card 1. So maybe I'm not playing things right, hence the following questions:

1) Quest card 1A states: Setup: reveal one card per player. This revealing is done after I drew my starting hands? And I have to draw two cards, since I'm playing two-handed?

2) If I draw a clue card (Sign of Gollum), which is guarded, I immediately draw a second card as the 'guard'. What if that is a treachery? Resolve, and immediately discard? Hence no guarded clue?

3) What if the treachery is drawn during setup? Resolve? Hence my question for the already drawn starting hands; maybe I can play cards which let me 'skip' the treachery?

So far my questions. Now for some tips/tricks; I'm not yet that great of a deckbuilder, so I'm playing with the Leadership/Lore- and Tactics/Spirit-decks form Hall of Beorn, just to get the hang of multiple sphere decks. Reason why I'm getting beaten, is that I'm not succesful in questing; the staging area is full of threat (even more with two clues and one or more Hunters from Mordor!). Thus my counters rise incredibly by the difference. And getting the right starting cards for my heroes is also problematic, even with the mulligans... So some tips would be welcome!

PS: Skipped dol guldur because of the beating every single time (and because I wanted to just try some new cards). Finished Journey along the Anduin after a couple of times with two single sphere decks (Leadership and Tactics), both just one core-set.

Thanks for all you kind answers!

Wouter
 
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Lee Broderick
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cwb1977 wrote:
1) Quest card 1A states: Setup: reveal one card per player. This revealing is done after I drew my starting hands? And I have to draw two cards, since I'm playing two-handed?


Yes, you draw two cards. Personally, I've always drawn my hand after setting up the encounter deck, staging area, etc. but I'm not sure if there's a hard rule on this. You'll still be drawing two more cards during the first questing stage anyway.

cwb1977 wrote:
2) If I draw a clue card (Sign of Gollum), which is guarded, I immediately draw a second card as the 'guard'. What if that is a treachery? Resolve, and immediately discard? Hence no guarded clue?


Correct.

cwb1977 wrote:
3) What if the treachery is drawn during setup? Resolve? Hence my question for the already drawn starting hands; maybe I can play cards which let me 'skip' the treachery?


Set-up is not part of play, so there isn't an action window in which you can play cards. Most of these treachery cards will simply be discarded - e.g. if it says 'deal one damage to each questing hero', there are no questing heroes so it goes straight into the discard pile (can't remember is that's actually one of the treachery cards on this quest or not).

cwb1977 wrote:
So far my questions. Now for some tips/tricks; I'm not yet that great of a deckbuilder, so I'm playing with the Leadership/Lore- and Tactics/Spirit-decks form Hall of Beorn, just to get the hang of multiple sphere decks. Reason why I'm getting beaten, is that I'm not succesful in questing; the staging area is full of threat (even more with two clues and one or more Hunters from Mordor!). Thus my counters rise incredibly by the difference. And getting the right starting cards for my heroes is also problematic, even with the mulligans... So some tips would be welcome!


I'm unusual around here in not frequenting Hall of Beorn so I don't know those decks. As you say, managing threat on this quest is crucial, which generally means spirit. If you can't run two spirit decks, have you thought about playing one-handed? Personally, I prefer playing that way anyway but it's all a matter of taste.
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Dominic B
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cornishlee wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:
3) What if the treachery is drawn during setup? Resolve? Hence my question for the already drawn starting hands; maybe I can play cards which let me 'skip' the treachery?


Set-up is not part of play, so there isn't an action window in which you can play cards. Most of these treachery cards will simply be discarded (...)


This is not a hundred percent correct. There is not an Action window, that is right. But even during setup it is allowed to trigger or play Responses as the FAQ (p.11) says:

Quote:
Q: Can a player use a response effect like the one on
Eleanor (CORE 8) during setup?
A: Yes. Responses can be triggered at any time they
meet their specified prerequisite, including during
setup.

But keep in mind that you do not have any resources yet.
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Wouter Boon
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This implies you do draw starting hands before setup, correct? But setup happens before the resource phase. Timing is evertything...
 
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Dominic B
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cwb1977 wrote:
This implies you do draw starting hands before setup, correct? But setup happens before the resource phase. Timing is evertything...

You got it
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Josh Walton
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cwb1977 wrote:
This implies you do draw starting hands before setup, correct? But setup happens before the resource phase. Timing is evertything...


Rulebook wrote:

Setup
1. Shuffle decks
2. Place heroes and set initial threat levels
3. Setup token bank
4. Determine first player
5. Draw setup hand
6. Set Quest cards
7. Follow scenario setup instructions


As for the quest, Hunters From Mordor is definitely your biggest concern so it's unfortunate if more than one show up early in the game. This quest can be really swingy that way. One game you might only see 1 clue and no Hunters, and then the next you might get a lot of both. There's not much you can do at that point. You don't have to kill them to win so if you can engage them and chump block at least their threat won't be in the staging area anymore.
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David Goulette
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cwb1977 wrote:

Reason why I'm getting beaten, is that I'm not succesful in questing; the staging area is full of threat (even more with two clues and one or more Hunters from Mordor!). Thus my counters rise incredibly by the difference. And getting the right starting cards for my heroes is also problematic, even with the mulligans... So some tips would be welcome!

PS: Skipped dol guldur because of the beating every single time (and because I wanted to just try some new cards). Finished Journey along the Anduin after a couple of times with two single sphere decks (Leadership and Tactics), both just one core-set.

Thanks for all you kind answers!

Wouter


Great questions. You are thinking the right things. Since you really want to learn the game more deeply, I do recommend you read the F.A.Q. closely if you haven't already. That helped me.

I have certainly cancelled nasty treacheries during setup with responses! haha.

You can do Dol Guldur! :-) We house ruled that we could hold back one hero that couldn't be captured. If Aragorn or Eowyn is captured... you are done. My wife and I beat it with Leadership and Spirit with the core set. But I will say that a second core does make Dol Guldur easier. Making sure you have 3 sneak attacks, 3 Gandalf's in both decks, etc.

A couple things, this game requires you to push your threat up close to 50 sometimes, or risk losing some heros, etc. You have to push the limits. So, for example, if you are playing a scenario where you are getting overrun by enemies, then try questing less and even risk your threat going up to try to clear it out. Don't be afraid to take some damage and try to heal it later if possible. Conversely if you are having trouble clearing locations, you may have to over quest and risk getting bashed by some enemies. Don't be afraid to take an unblocked attack once in a while.

Ignore the tournament deck size until you have a much bigger card pool. If you have to thin your deck to make sure you get the best cards to beat Dol Goldur then do it.

One small detail many miss (I did!), is that there is an action window during the Quest phase but after you draw your staging cards but before you resolve the quest! So if you have Faramir in play, you can hold him back (don't quest him), and then see what you draw during staging, then if you need a quest boost, exhaust him to use his action. That is HUGE.

Clearly, sneak attack + gandalf (or possibly Brok Ironfist) is big. Getting a guy in for one resource is huge.

If you have a lot of locations in play, get Northern Tracker and Lorien Guide in play. So good.

Use Eowyn's ability to boost your willpower. Both players can discard cards. And, just like the Faramir example, you don't have to decide whether to discard cards until AFTER you draw staging cards.

Clearly, Protector of Lorien, The Favor of the Lady, and Celebrian's stone help with questing.

I think Leadership + Spirit is best for questing in the core set. I actually think you don't need to do much deck construction if you are playing two handed with these spheres.

Happy questing.
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Dale Stephenson
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Leonce wrote:

This is not a hundred percent correct. There is not an Action window, that is right. But even during setup it is allowed to trigger or play Responses as the FAQ (p.11) says:

Quote:
Q: Can a player use a response effect like the one on
Eleanor (CORE 8) during setup?
A: Yes. Responses can be triggered at any time they
meet their specified prerequisite, including during
setup.

But keep in mind that you do not have any resources yet.


If you are playing in "Easy mode" as described in the rulebook, the extra resource per hero is placed *during setup*, so would be available to play A Test of Will or other response cards. Even without Easy mode, the hero Denethor (Leadership version) has two resources placed on him during setup -- though I think it's very unlikely any leadership event cards would be useful to play during staging. (Maybe an enemy placed into staging followed by a treachery causing an immediate attack, in which case Terrible to Behold could prevent the attack, or Taste it Again! could conceivably re-ready a defender. You could also kill a 1 hp enemy revealed in staging with Fresh Tracks.)
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Dale Stephenson
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cornishlee wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:

[q="cwb1977"]So far my questions. Now for some tips/tricks; I'm not yet that great of a deckbuilder, so I'm playing with the Leadership/Lore- and Tactics/Spirit-decks form Hall of Beorn, just to get the hang of multiple sphere decks. Reason why I'm getting beaten, is that I'm not succesful in questing; the staging area is full of threat (even more with two clues and one or more Hunters from Mordor!). Thus my counters rise incredibly by the difference. And getting the right starting cards for my heroes is also problematic, even with the mulligans... So some tips would be welcome!


I'm unusual around here in not frequenting Hall of Beorn so I don't know those decks. As you say, managing threat on this quest is crucial, which generally means spirit. If you can't run two spirit decks, have you thought about playing one-handed? Personally, I prefer playing that way anyway but it's all a matter of taste.


I'm very familiar with the Beorn's Path decks, since I used them (with modifications) all the way into the LOTR saga and dreamchaser. It's worth not using just the decklists, but also the description and pay attention to the playthrough notes -- though as other have noted, when you get multiple clues and Hunters from Mordor, things can escalate badly. You may notice in Beorn's Path that although part 7 tuned *both* decks, part 8 had the playthrough *only* with the Leadership/Lore deck. In solo you have less change of a nasty combo, and while I'm not certain this quest is "easier" on average in solo, I think it has a lower chance of really hard combos. I beat it solo with both Beorn's Path decks, as I did the following quests in the cycle -- except for Return to Mirkwood, which is *much* easier two-handed.

For the Aragorn/Denethor/Theodred deck, Steward of Gondor is your most important card and should generally be mulliganed for, unless you happen to have the Sneak Attack/Gandalf combo in hand. But notice in the playthrough Beorn kept a starting hand with Gandalf but neither Steward of Gondor or Sneak Attack -- his attention was fixed by Celebrian's Stone and Faramir, which allows you to put up amazing questing numbers, and this quest is a quest that you can win by questing hard and quickly.

For the Gimli/Eowyn/Thalin deck, I generally look for a Test of Will and a good ally defender. This was Winged Guardian from here through Heirs of Numenor, when Defender of Rammas replaced it. You start with significantly better questing than the other deck, even though the top end is more limited, so you should be able to quest strongly enough to clear locations from the beginning. Get enemies out of the staging area, and kill them with Gimli -- job one is to get Gimli good and banged up enough to kill enemies. In this case, the main threat is those Hunters from Mordor. Clues boost their threat and their attack, but not their defense, so 8 damage will kill them in one stroke, 7 if they were dinged by Thalin, 6 if you chump-blocked with a Gondorian Spearman -- and even without any attachments, a fully-damaged Gimli attacks for six. I actually like to take undefended attacks early in the Gimli deck to power him up quickly (and free his action for counter-attacking). That risks instant death from a nasty shadow, but without risks it's not as fun.

When the two decks are working together, don't forget both decks can discard to Eowyn in order to boost her willpower -- that's not something you'll want to do every time, but it can sometimes make the difference between clearing a location (so you can travel to a location in staging) or not. Also, in the first turn make the Gimli deck first player, that way if there's some expensive spirit or tactics card, you can save a resource for Aragorn's readying, and use Theodred's ability to give a resource to Thalin or Eowyn ASAP instead of just enabling Aragorn.

Above all, don't get too down because the quest crushed you. Sometimes the cards don't fall your way, especially with this quest. The last time I played against this was with a two-deck fellowship starring a Three Rings Deck (Gandalf/Galadriel/Elrond) and supporting tactics. It had come off crushing victories over Anduin and Dol Goldur, but against this quest Old Wives Tale came out in staging and exhausted all six heroes -- and the attachment heavy decks had no affordable allies to pick up the slack in turn one. The remaining reveals turned up Hunters and Clues for a massive threat gain in turn one questing, and engagement and undefended massive attacks in the combat phase -- essentially game over in turn one. Sometimes stuff happens. Reshuffled and setup again, Old Wives Tale didn't come out in staging, and the same decks crushed the quest easily and quickly. All quests can be swingy, and this one more than most.
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Wouter Boon
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Wow, great answers you all gave! Definitely looking forward to trying it again. Those action windows I tend to forget, or I just exhaust Faramir right away, when not even neccesary... Again, great advise from you all.
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David Goulette
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Also, it is easy to forget that you have an action window after every step of combat.

Also you have an action window at the end of the refresh phase but before you start the round. (So AFTER you refresh your characters, raise threat, and pass the first player token you can take actions. Note that if you use a character action that causes him/her to exaust, he/she will start the next round exhausted.) I don't remember if there are cases in the core and/or mirkwood cycle where you really need this action window but I remember using it somewhere. :-)

This sheet is really good for remembering every detail for each action window, remembering what is done in turn order vs. any order etc:

http://www.kaybee.org/kirk/LoTR_LCG_QuickRef.pdf


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Wouter Boon
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cwb1977 wrote:
Wow, great answers you all gave! Definitely looking forward to trying it again. Those action windows I tend to forget, or I just exhaust Faramir right away, when not even neccesary... Again, great advise from you all.


Well, tried it again tonight. This time with just one deck (leadership/lore). And, whohoo, I beat the scenario! Thanks to all your advise! Some key tips and tricks, which helped me a lot:
- action windows (had a sheet on my ipad next to me for reference).
- steward of gondor on Denethor for extra resource for Lore.
- scrying (is it called that way?) with Denethor
- choosing the 'right' cards to enter the staging area after questing succesfully and discarding the other ones.
- drawing cards with gleowine and thus getting some sneak attacks, gandalfs and protector of lorien, for extra willpower (in action window after revealing card after committing to a quest).
- and so on and so forth (and sometimes just lucky draws...)

Next time, I will try this with the two decks.

Edit: 'willpower' instead of 'resource' on fifth point.


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David Goulette
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cwb1977 wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:
Wow, great answers you all gave! Definitely looking forward to trying it again. Those action windows I tend to forget, or I just exhaust Faramir right away, when not even neccesary... Again, great advise from you all.


Well, tried it again tonight. This time with just one deck (leadership/lore). And, whohoo, I beat the scenario! Thanks to all your advise! Some key tips and tricks, which helped me a lot:
- action windows (had a sheet on my ipad next to me for reference).
- steward of gondor on Denethor for extra resource for Lore.
- scrying (is it called that way?) with Denethor
- choosing the 'right' cards to enter the staging area after questing succesfully and discarding the other ones.
- drawing cards with gleowine and thus getting some sneak attacks, gandalfs and protector of lorien, for extra willpower (in action window after revealing card after committing to a quest).
- and so on and so forth (and sometimes just lucky draws...)

Next time, I will try this with the two decks.

Edit: 'willpower' instead of 'resource' on fifth point.




AWESOME! Thanks for the update.
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Jim . K
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cwb1977 wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:
Wow, great answers you all gave! Definitely looking forward to trying it again. Those action windows I tend to forget, or I just exhaust Faramir right away, when not even neccesary... Again, great advise from you all.


Well, tried it again tonight. This time with just one deck (leadership/lore). And, whohoo, I beat the scenario! Thanks to all your advise! Some key tips and tricks, which helped me a lot:
- action windows (had a sheet on my ipad next to me for reference).
- steward of gondor on Denethor for extra resource for Lore.
- scrying (is it called that way?) with Denethor
- choosing the 'right' cards to enter the staging area after questing succesfully and discarding the other ones.
- drawing cards with gleowine and thus getting some sneak attacks, gandalfs and protector of lorien, for extra willpower (in action window after revealing card after committing to a quest).
- and so on and so forth (and sometimes just lucky draws...)

Next time, I will try this with the two decks.

Edit: 'willpower' instead of 'resource' on fifth point.




I have learnt never to underestimate the ability to card draw more than just one card into your hand asap .. Being able to get through your deck early on with some extra card draw is really helpful as it gives you more options to deal with early frustrations. Their are quite a few player cards that aid this, as well as heroes, and don't forget sneak attacking Gandalf to gain you 3 cards is also possible..often that reward from Gandalf is overlooked I find.

Could you explain your fourth point to me? I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'choosing the right cards.. And discarding the other's '?
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Wouter Boon
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I Will reply to you as soon as possible and with an example of the cards I drew. Now at work
 
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David Goulette
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JimBGG wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:
Wow, great answers you all gave! Definitely looking forward to trying it again. Those action windows I tend to forget, or I just exhaust Faramir right away, when not even neccesary... Again, great advise from you all.


Well, tried it again tonight. This time with just one deck (leadership/lore). And, whohoo, I beat the scenario! Thanks to all your advise! Some key tips and tricks, which helped me a lot:
- action windows (had a sheet on my ipad next to me for reference).
- steward of gondor on Denethor for extra resource for Lore.
- scrying (is it called that way?) with Denethor
- choosing the 'right' cards to enter the staging area after questing succesfully and discarding the other ones.
- drawing cards with gleowine and thus getting some sneak attacks, gandalfs and protector of lorien, for extra willpower (in action window after revealing card after committing to a quest).
- and so on and so forth (and sometimes just lucky draws...)

Next time, I will try this with the two decks.

Edit: 'willpower' instead of 'resource' on fifth point.



I have learnt never to underestimate the ability to card draw more than just one card into your hand asap .. Being able to get through your deck early on with some extra card draw is really helpful as it gives you more options to deal with early frustrations. Their are quite a few player cards that aid this, as well as heroes, and don't forget sneak attacking Gandalf to gain you 3 cards is also possible..often that reward from Gandalf is overlooked I find.


Agreed on getting more cards! My wife and I love to play Leadership and Lore. Those extra cards at the beginning of the game can make the difference: drawing an early Snare for a hill troll, Sneak Attack, Steward of Gondor, Gandalf, etc.
 
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Wouter Boon
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cwb1977 wrote:
I Will reply to you as soon as possible and with an example of the cards I drew. Now at work


Well, as promised I would get back on this (the question about what 'right' cards I drew):

Stage 1B states: after questing succesfully, the first player looks at the top three cards of the encounter deck. Reveal and add 1 of those cards to the staging area, and discard the other 2 cards.

On one of those quests which were succesful, I drew three cards, revealed and added a treachery (Pursued by Shadow). The other cards were for example Hunters from Mordor, a location with 3 threat, etc. The revealed card (treachery) states to raise my threat by one for each character I controled that is not committed to the quest. As I had few (one) character not committed to the quest, I raised my threat by one and discarded the treachery. I assume this was legal.

So that was what I meant with revealing the 'right' card, as I thought that adding one of those others would have made questing is subsequent rounds more difficult by the threatnumbers...

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Jim . K
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cwb1977 wrote:
cwb1977 wrote:
I Will reply to you as soon as possible and with an example of the cards I drew. Now at work


Well, as promised I would get back on this (the question about what 'right' cards I drew):

Stage 1B states: after questing succesfully, the first player looks at the top three cards of the encounter deck. Reveal and add 1 of those cards to the staging area, and discard the other 2 cards.

On one of those quests which were succesful, I drew three cards, revealed and added a treachery (Pursued by Shadow). The other cards were for example Hunters from Mordor, a location with 3 threat, etc. The revealed card (treachery) states to raise my threat by one for each character I controled that is not committed to the quest. As I had few (one) character not committed to the quest, I raised my threat by one and discarded the treachery. I assume this was legal.

So that was what I meant with revealing the 'right' card, as I thought that adding one of those others would have made questing is subsequent rounds more difficult by the threatnumbers...




Ahhh, now i understand perfectly... yes, you were absolutely correct in choosing the card that does the least damage to your circumstances at that exact time. It may on another occasion be the best thing to add a location if you know you are still able to overcome the threat and travel to it for example, its all dependant on the circumstances, but yes, you were right to discard the worst case cards Good job !
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