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Mystic Vale: Vale of Magic» Forums » General

Subject: Telling sets apart rss

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I didn't notice any iconography on the new cards. Is there a way to tell which card belongs to which set aside from knowing them by heart?

Or did they just go over something that basic?
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Salvador C. Majoral
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Razoupaf wrote:
I didn't notice any iconography on the new cards. Is there a way to tell which card belongs to which set aside from knowing them by heart?

Or did they just go over something that basic?


If an expansion doesn't add new rules or anything, there's no problem in not being able to tell them appart, because you will play the same way if you are using one set or the other or both. I actually prefer that they are not distinguisable because they belong to the same one game. Could you tell us some reason as to why you would need to tell them apart?
 
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Once I pick up this game I'll also want to know how to distinguish them.
salva wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
I didn't notice any iconography on the new cards. Is there a way to tell which card belongs to which set aside from knowing them by heart?

Or did they just go over something that basic?


If an expansion doesn't add new rules or anything, there's no problem in not being able to tell them appart, because you will play the same way if you are using one set or the other or both. I actually prefer that they are not distinguisable because they belong to the same one game. Could you tell us some reason as to why you would need to tell them apart?

Most card game expansions have new mechanics/symbols/etc., some of which may:
a) over-complicate the game for new players
b) not fit to the player's preferred game style
c) unbalance the game in some way and need to be taken back out until another expansion helps re-balance them

I teach my games to a lot of new people so I usually try to remove expansions for the first game to make it easier to learn and teach.
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salva wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
I didn't notice any iconography on the new cards. Is there a way to tell which card belongs to which set aside from knowing them by heart?

Or did they just go over something that basic?


If an expansion doesn't add new rules or anything, there's no problem in not being able to tell them appart, because you will play the same way if you are using one set or the other or both. I actually prefer that they are not distinguisable because they belong to the same one game. Could you tell us some reason as to why you would need to tell them apart?


- Sell them separately
- Sell the expansion because someone finds the base game is sufficient
- Play the first game with new players with just the base game
- Play only with the second expansion when it comes out
...

There's lots of potential reasons ...
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I'll have a hard time explaining things better than my two fellow Geeks here!

But let's say you play Ascension: Deckbuilding Game. Are you really willing to shuffle a deck which includes 10+ expansions every time? That's over 1,000 cards. It also dilutes many of the mechanisms of the game, and would not play well. Well, actually, since I play it online, it doesn't play well. At all.

As for Mystic Vale:
- I'm introducing the game to new people now and then. I don't like it when people include expansions when they show me a game, and I don't include them when I teach other people a game. In this case, I don't want new players to have the mana token manipulation mechanism straight from the start. I'd rather have them seeing it as a consolation prize for spoiling. Vale that do something when bought add a new, subtle layer or decision-making that might strip away the simple elegance of the game for a new player, too.
- I like to try everything out in every situation and see how it plays. I'll play Star Realms on its own, then add Star Realms: Gambit Set, then remove gambit set and add Star Realms: Colony Wars for a four player game (I know, this goes against what I said earlier, but SR is a special case), then remove colony wars and add the Crysis packs, then remove the Crysis packs to try the solo challenges out, then put everything together again. I like customizing games to my taste, you see.
- I want to understand what the expansion adds exactly. Did this new card help me achieve an incredible combo, or was it part of the base game? Does the expansion open new possibilities, or did I just miss them when we played only the base game? I might remember what card was part of which set for three games, and then forget. That is especially true as also am a reviewer (not a famous one or anything, but still.)
- I might dislike the new expansion, and want to remove it altogether. Yet somehow, finding a list of the cards it brings is tedious, as it is rarely broken down in the rulebook (again, SR being the exception).
- I like the time and work that went into designing an expansion symbol. Coming from Magic: The Gathering, I expect expansion symbols to portray a bit of the story that is behind the game. Avacyn's symbol in Avacyn Restored, the Kaldra set in Mirrodin, are nice little touches that accomplish more than just telling sets apart.
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K'Trazz
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https://www.alderac.com/images/2016/05/MV_card-list-v2-0.pdf
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ktrazz wrote:


That's useful!
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ashman wrote:
salva wrote:
Razoupaf wrote:
I didn't notice any iconography on the new cards. Is there a way to tell which card belongs to which set aside from knowing them by heart?

Or did they just go over something that basic?


If an expansion doesn't add new rules or anything, there's no problem in not being able to tell them appart, because you will play the same way if you are using one set or the other or both. I actually prefer that they are not distinguisable because they belong to the same one game. Could you tell us some reason as to why you would need to tell them apart?


- Sell them separately
- Sell the expansion because someone finds the base game is sufficient
- Play the first game with new players with just the base game
- Play only with the second expansion when it comes out
...

There's lots of potential reasons ...


Exactly, and the reasons for not using an expansion symbol on the cards?

I just do not understand AEG sometimes, why not take advantage of all the many years of development in the CCG/LCG/deckbuilding space and just follow a good example.
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K'Trazz
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Razoupaf wrote:


Hopefully this is, as well.
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I thought I'd mention another use case for distinguishable sets: Mixing sets that belong to different owners. I've had this happen in a couple of different scenarios:

If you play with the same group most of the time, it might be reasonable to buy an expansion to a game you don't own. I did this with Dominion for a while. I wanted to play with a set my friend didn't have, but since I only ever played with him, I didn't want to spend money on the base game, which he already had.

Similarly, when I bought Vale of Magic, I was at board game night at my local game shop. I was excited about it and wanted to play right away, but I hadn't brought my copy of Mystic Vale. Luckily the store had a copy, so I threw my expansion in with that, but afterwards, I wanted my stuff back. Luckily, we were able to separate them by cross-referencing the contents and card clarification section of the rules insert, but since not all cards had clarifications, this was only possible because I've got a good memory and had looked through the expansion beforehand (it wasn't an issue with advancements, since I've played the base game enough to know them all by heart, but vale cards are less familiar, especially the level 2 ones, which in many games are never purchased at all, so if I hadn't looked at them before mixing them in, we would have been reduced to trying to determine which cards looked the least worn).
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