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Mare Nostrum: Empires» Forums » General

Subject: Will kickstarter heroes ever become avalible? rss

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Day Life
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Anyone know if the Kickstarter Exclusives and to a lesser extent the Theseus Promo Card will ever become available to those who didn't back it?




 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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DayinDaLife wrote:
Anyone know if the Kickstarter Exclusives and to a lesser extent the Theseus Promo Card will ever become available to those who didn't back it?

Well except for conventions they probably won't be.

Why call them "exclusives" if they aren't? For many people, exclusives are the most important reason to back projects - and a lot of projects without KS exclusives get significantly less funding. Price or availability? Sometimes retail prices are lower (no shipping costs) or due to shipping issues the game is available on retail even before KS backers get their game - so those aren't reliable reasons to back.

So I would say: they won't be available. Not that you miss a great lot if you don't have them (except when you're on of the completionists in this world).

What MN:E's 3 exclusive heroes (Ariane, Minotaur and Theseus) and markers are concerned, you can of course print a copy for yourself. They're not miniatures or something.
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Throknor
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Do they count as exclusives if backers never received them?
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Day Life
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I understand they were listed as "exclusives" but most good kickers make the specials available at some point so not to alienate players retail buyers.
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Sergio Macias
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Throknor wrote:
Do they count as exclusives if backers never received them?


I did get mine.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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DayinDaLife wrote:
I understand they were listed as "exclusives" but most good kickers make the specials available at some point so not to alienate players retail buyers.

I don't see why it should "alienate" buyers.
I don't know any kickstarter that did offer exclusive stuff later on, but then again, I may have missed a few ;-).

And what's the value of the words "KS exclusive", then, if they're in fact not KS exclusive?

Personally, I wouldn't mind in this case. But if CMON would release all KS exclusives I would be rather p*ssed off.

Victor Mancha wrote:
Throknor wrote:
Do they count as exclusives if backers never received them?

I did get mine.

I received mine too. But they were hidden somewhere in the corner of the box (I almost threw the box away), I wonder if some people didn't overlook them!
 
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CMON have already released thye "exclusives" to the game I have of from them.. as in Khaos Ball. They have also done so for Zombiecide.

All you have to do is see the 100s of threads on many game pages to see that regardless of how you feel about it, many gamers dislike the idea of exclusives, and in fact will simply not ever buy the retail version because of them. If this is fair or not is not the issue, simply put, many customers dislike the practice which is why many of the high profile kickstarters offer the exclusives to everyone after some time.
 
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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DayinDaLife wrote:
CMON have already released thye "exclusives" to the game I have of from them.. as in Khaos Ball. They have also done so for Zombiecide.

Really? Interesting! How long after the KS does that happen? I would be interested in some Arcardia Quest (2013) exclusives, for example.

DayinDaLife wrote:
All you have to do is see the 100s of threads on many game pages to see that regardless of how you feel about it, many gamers dislike the idea of exclusives, and in fact will simply not ever buy the retail version because of them. If this is fair or not is not the issue, simply put, many customers dislike the practice which is why many of the high profile kickstarters offer the exclusives to everyone after some time.

Well .. if game designers use KS exclusives to greatly increase their pledges, they should keep KS exclusives exclusive - or they are cheating their backers. You can't have both.
 
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This is a choice for the designers, what I am basically saying here is that the entire concept of the exclusives is flawed and should be abandoned. Most high profile kicker devs have stopped doing it because of the backlash form retail gamers.. basically you may get some extra pledges, but you loose a huge amount of retail buyers. In most games, simply have kickstarter unlocks that are also eventually going to be released retail, but kickers get them first is enough.

IMO, exclusives are just bad business.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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DayinDaLife wrote:
This is a choice for the designers, what I am basically saying here is that the entire concept of the exclusives is flawed and should be abandoned. Most high profile kicker devs have stopped doing it because of the backlash form retail gamers.. basically you may get some extra pledges, but you loose a huge amount of retail buyers. In most games, simply have kickstarter unlocks that are also eventually going to be released retail, but kickers get them first is enough.

IMO, exclusives are just bad business.

I don't think it is so black-and-white.

If a non-KS exclusive game studio only gets 50% of the funding it would get otherwise, it may only be able to make a part of the (potential) game as many planned stretch goals aren't reached.
For instance injection molds for miniatures are quite costly (in mini heavy boardgames) but once the mold is there, making more minis from it isn't all that expensive. Which in turn also influences what will get into the retail boxes.
So in that way, everybody benefits from KS exclusives.

So given that situation, the question basically is:
- Do you want
a) a retail box with average content - but no KS exclusives or
b) a retail box with 50% extra content - but with KS exclusives that you might never get

I am not sure that everyone would pick option a)

Quote:
Most high profile kicker devs have stopped doing it because of the backlash form retail gamers..

Not sure what you see as "high profile kicker devs" but most bigger games I backed still have KS exclusives. The only big exceptions being Jamey Stegmaier and Soda Pop.
Although Soda Pop has discontinued a small amount of their minis so they have become more or less like KS exclusives what availability is concerned.
 
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Day Life
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Got a reply from Academy Games

The Kickstarter Exclusives and War & Peace Markers are only
available to those who backed our Kickstarter campaign. They do
not affect the play of the game in any way and were just a
little "thank you" item to our backers.
 
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Rob W
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Did they mention anything about whether they still plan to send the markers to Second Class USA English backers (whistle) who didn't get any markers?
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James Patterson
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Victor Mancha wrote:
Throknor wrote:
Do they count as exclusives if backers never received them?


I did get mine.


I got the heroes, in a little baggy, but not the war and peace markers. Any word if those will come later? And yes, the heroes were separate from the game boxes (base plus Atlas) and could easily have gotten lost in the packaging.
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Steven Townshend
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DayinDaLife wrote:
...the entire concept of the exclusives is flawed and should be abandoned...


I concur. I'm very happy to have these heroes, but I think they should be available to all who love this game and want to promote it through sharing with others. Also, if you happen to lose or damage one of your exclusive components, too bad so sad--it's gone forever.

Personally, I don't care so much about exclusives like an exclusive starting player token or the war/peace markers--but I dislike GAME elements you can't get, as well as whole sets of exclusive components.
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Mark J.
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A discount off MSRP for KS supporters should be thank you enough and a win-win. After all the reason to support a KS is to get a product you want made not to get 'KS exclusive' stuff. Otherwise either your customers receive an incomplete game or KS supporters get useless fluff--can't have it both ways. Doing away with KS exclusives would simplify things for the publisher and eliminate a lot of confusion among customers.
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Thaddeus MacTaggart
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TTM07 wrote:
A discount off MSRP for KS supporters should be thank you enough and a win-win.

Well as I wrote before, that is just not always the case. And I am not sure if all KS creators can afford that; after all, the retailer around the corner doesn't charge you any shipping fees, which are often a substantial part of your KS fee.
Also it also happens that retailers have the game sooner than backers, due to logistical issues. Especially US retailers often sell the game weeks up to sometimes several months before Euro gamers receive their plegdes.
So those aren't reliable reasons to back a KS instead of waiting for retail.

Quote:
Otherwise either your customers receive an incomplete game or KS supporters get useless fluff--can't have it both ways. Doing away with KS exclusives would simplify things for the publisher and eliminate a lot of confusion among customers.

Well what would you call "incomplete"? Is a game without expansion incomplete? Is it incomplete without buying all possible/optional add-ons? Or does it get incomplete once an expansion is released?
If so, it's not that "incomplete" games aren't perfectly playable and enjoyable.
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Mark J.
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Just to be clear I am mainly referring to USA customers as that is the business side I am familiar with. USA customers don't have to deal with taxes and customs and shipping is normally < $10 USD.

VAT, customs and shipping should just be tacked onto the cost of backing for customers located in countries that charge those taxes.

The only issue with a designer or publisher giving KS backers a discount off MSRP is the volume of backers needed to adequately fund the project. Publishers sell their games to retailers for 30-40% of MSRP. They might get as much as $24.00 for a $60.00 MSRP game. That's how online retailers can routinely offer games for 40% off MSRP and still earn a living. Publishers love it when you order a game direct from them because their profit margin is much higher.

A complete game is one that is the same as any other copy of the game that the owner has not customized on their own.

It sounds like you are still harboring a grudge about the KS. I empathize with you but won't comment further as I have no personal involvement and wasn't even aware of the KS. I do think KS is a flawed business model and would prefer that it go away.
 
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