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Alchemists: The King's Golem» Forums » Rules

Subject: Are golem test results public knowledge? rss

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Philip Morton
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This came up in another thread. The library-book results in the app show the chosen ingredient, so they clearly aren't meant to be shown to the other players, but the golem-test result screen doesn't have any ingredient information on it. Are the results of tests on the golem supposed to be public knowledge, like base-game tests, or not?
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Rafaël Theunis
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since it wasn't mentioned in the rule you would actually share this, I'd say no. That's how we played it anyway.
 
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Matúš Kotry
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No, you don't show golem test result to your opponents.

Such information would not have much value for them anyway.
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Aleksi Hynönen
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ko3matus wrote:
No, you don't show golem test result to your opponents.

Such information would not have much value for them anyway.


I suppose this is also answers the question whether you can use the periscope to spy golem tests. How about animating? I guess no.
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The Galaxy is Just Packed!
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RolexiH wrote:
ko3matus wrote:
No, you don't show golem test result to your opponents.

Such information would not have much value for them anyway.


I suppose this is also answers the question whether you can use the periscope to spy golem tests. How about animating? I guess no.


I don't have the card in front of me, but if the periscope card text specifically mentions "potion" then I would say it can't be used with any Golem tests.

As for showing the animation result, since animating has an audio component I'd say yes. It's fun to share the anticipation.
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Philip Morton
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bryanwinter wrote:
As for showing the animation result, since animating has an audio component I'd say yes. It's fun to share the anticipation.

Animating the golem clearly has to be revealed because it affects the board (you move your golem-activity marker to the top line, indicating that you get points during the second conference / end of game).
 
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Aleksi Hynönen
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bryanwinter wrote:

I don't have the card in front of me, but if the periscope card text specifically mentions "potion" then I would say it can't be used with any Golem tests.

As for showing the animation result, since animating has an audio component I'd say yes. It's fun to share the anticipation.


I meant spying an ingredient used in the golem animation with the periscope but it's true that the card says you can only use it when someone is selling or testing a potion.
 
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Philip Morton
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RolexiH wrote:
I meant spying an ingredient used in the golem animation with the periscope but it's true that the card says you can only use it when someone is selling or testing a potion.

Animating the golem doesn't use ingredient cards. How would the periscope work, physically? There's nothing going to the discard pile to peek at.
 
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Nathanaël Dufour
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Chrondeath wrote:
This came up in another thread. The library-book results in the app show the chosen ingredient, so they clearly aren't meant to be shown to the other players, but the golem-test result screen doesn't have any ingredient information on it. Are the results of tests on the golem supposed to be public knowledge, like base-game tests, or not?


We do it public, also you could do it both ways... But unless they can guess which ingredients you took, the information is completely useless (contrary to other experiments).

With the golem there is no GOOD or BAD results : every result gives you just as much information.
 
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David desJardins
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Osuniev wrote:
With the golem there is no GOOD or BAD results : every result gives you just as much information.


There are good or bad pairs of results, though. E.g., getting the same result from two different tests is bad for figuring out how the golem works, but good for figuring out the alchemicals.
 
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Nestor Quintero
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Hmm still no answer.

IMO it should be a "No" for the test.
-> But everyone should have the application with high volume! So that all hear that one test was done. This info MAY be useful to other players

It should be a "Yes" for the activation of the golem
-> Simply because its fun to watch the tension in the app... waiting for the golem to animate or not . This info is NEVER useful to other players


Knowing the golem test result is useless for other players?
Not true. Sometimes you may know what ingredient(s) a player has if they took it from the board faceup (1st action, collect ingredients).
 
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Daniele Silvi
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I agree
 
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Steve Dupree
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SrFinn wrote:
Knowing the golem test result is useless for other players?
Not true. Sometimes you may know what ingredient(s) a player has if they took it from the board faceup (1st action, collect ingredients).


In general it seems like a good idea to always have at least one extra ingredient in your hand (or discard one to transmutation). Otherwise your opponents can get just as much information from a test as you will. (Or half as much if you combined one "public" ingredient with one private).

 
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David desJardins
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stannius wrote:
In general it seems like a good idea to always have at least one extra ingredient in your hand (or discard one to transmutation). Otherwise your opponents will get just as much information from a test as you will.


That's not true for several reasons. Because you sometimes (in fact, usually) get ingredients that your opponents don't know what they are. And because even when you have ingredients that they do know, they don't know which tests you use them on.
 
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Steve Dupree
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DaviddesJ wrote:
stannius wrote:
In general it seems like a good idea to always have at least one extra ingredient in your hand (or discard one to transmutation). Otherwise your opponents will get just as much information from a test as you will.


That's not true for several reasons. Because you sometimes (in fact, usually) get ingredients that your opponents don't know what they are. And because even when you have ingredients that they do know, they don't know which tests you use them on.


Well, I overstated a bit. But it is true that if you have two ingredients, and your opponents know one of them, and you do an experiment or mix a potion, your opponents get half of the information. So don't do that.

Similarly, if you have only one ingredient, and you got it from the face-up ingredients, and you feed it to the golem, and you have interpreted the rules to say that you have to show golem results to opponents, then your opponents get just as much information as you do. So don't do that.

Therefore, as long as you have enough ingredients that your opponents don't get half as much or as much info as you, it doesn't matter if you show your golem results. All it takes, in that case, is one ingredient the opponents don't know about. So it's not hard to achieve.

For completeness, there is at least one edge case where you took two identical ingredients face-up, and have one hidden ingredient, and those are all of your ingredients, and you make a potion and test on the golem in that turn. In that case, they know you had to have tested the ingredient you took face up, because you can't combine an ingredient with itself.

I admit I have only played the Golem once. We thought the results were public knowledge, but reread and decided they weren't, and it didn't make one whit of difference either way.

Showing the golem result proves that you make a golem test, but saying you did when you didn't is cheating, and I recommend not playing with cheaters as a general rule.
 
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David desJardins
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stannius wrote:
Well, I overstated a bit. But it is true that if you have two ingredients, and your opponents know one of them, and you do an experiment or mix a potion, your opponents get half of the information. So don't do that.


This almost never happens. What is much more likely is that you have four ingredients, one of which your opponents know, and you make two potions. Then they get some information, but much less than half of what you do.
 
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