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The Horus Heresy: Burning of Prospero» Forums » General

Subject: Curious who buys sight-unseen, who waits, and how long you wait rss

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James Hébert
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Although I am seriously drawn to GW's opulent-looking cover art and sometimes-deep back story to each of their boxed games, I'm quite hesitant to pull the trigger when they announce a new game until I know enough to decide Yay or Nay.

How do others respond - are these an instant-buy for you? Or are you picky, snagging one here and there (as I do)?

Me? I get excited. Obsessed, even, scrounging the web for more information. But not sold. Not yet. In truth my budget is such that buying every box as it is released is simply not possible. I made this error once in my past, picking up Dust Tactics models, which still tug on my imagination's strings. But it's become a behemoth, and the GW boxed approach fits my life better. So I pick and choose. The difficulty lies in getting enough information during the pre-order period to make the decision to buy in or pass.

Online resellers offer 20-25% off the list price during this time, which puts the more expensive of these titles just at the top of my "too expensive or worth it?" scale. During this period pre-release coverage by BGG, BOLS or other sites that monitor GW products, is critical to me. Without it, I probably would not buy until much, much later... and go for a used copy or hope for a cheaper copy found somewhere a year or two later in a clearance bin.

Of course, GW counts on this online marketing assistance, as well as the help that "limited-time pre-order" and "limited-time release" lend. Pressure is a powerful sales technique.

I get chills at seeing their production quality and reading their story-spinning. It's the kind of work I'd love to be involved in, and turn out, primarily because of the effect it has on me! Awe, wonderment, and a glimpse into another universe of alternate possibilities.

Since I don't buy every box on the shelf, I appreciate more than I can say the people who do - and who share their experiences here (RedMonkeyBoy, this means you, my friend!). They help me get over whatever emotional disappointment remains from having to pass on "something that appealed to me"! Let's face it, ya can't own everything. (And if I did, where would I put it?)

So I have Space Hulk, Betrayal at Calth, Deathwatch: Overkill, and the new one, Burning of Prospero, on order.

How about you?
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Kevin Outlaw
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jhebert wrote:

How about you?


Er...

No comment.
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Jim Patching
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I've been buying all of their boxed games ... well, apart from that Imperial Knights thing. I still haven't assembled all of them yet so there was no real need for me to rush out and get Prospero but I know it's going to be worth the price for the quality of components alone and I'm starting to feel pretty confident with this new raft of releases that the game itself should be good too.

I also kind of want to support GW's move to releasing these boxed games by actually buying them!
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JD Snider
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I've been a mix. With Space Hulk, Silver Tower and Gorechosen I jumped right in. Assassinorum and Calth I waited until there were plenty of reviews available.

Waited on Lost Patrol and ultimately decided against (wasn't impressed with the rules/balance and the models don't seem terribly exciting to me). Deathwatch Overkill I haven't decided on yet (I've pretty much watched/read everything I can find, but am just not QUITE convinced the gameplay is deep enough, though I'm sure I'd love assembling and painting the models in that one). Prospero I'm waiting for some reviews. It looks very promising, but I want a better idea about scenario quality and whether there is any real strategy in the enumeration phase.

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jon ike
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jhebert wrote:

How do others respond - are these an instant-buy for you? Or are you picky, snagging one here and there (as I do)?
So I have Space Hulk, Betrayal at Calth, Deathwatch: Overkill, and the new one, Burning of Prospero, on order.
How about you?


For these boxsets - long term support has been the deal breaker for me. I want to jump in with both feet but I'm seeing shallow waters here.

I've been so close to picking up Calth(actually just went through ebay again to see if price dropped after BoPs release), Silver Tower and now Prospero but I want expansions, I don't want a whole new system every release.

Actually I'm ok with these being different games as long as the expansions are there. And I'm not talking - White Dwarf rules for new units. An actual legit expansion like they used to do for Space Hulk. If Calth had releases like Imperial Assault I'd be all over it. Make it both a 40k lite and even RPG lite and I'd buy everything that was released without a second thought.

Same with Silver Tower. Looks like an amazing game but if they just showed even the intent of releasing more tiles / new adventures again I'd dive in.

Right now my biggest investment is time. I'm looking for that old "go to game" that you can slide right into. That game where you know the rules so well you can immerse yourself in the setting and not look through books every turn. Characters you can invest time in because they won't be replaced next release.

So having failed to deliver this kind of experience.... I look at my growing tower of GW big boxes and think am I becoming a hoarder? ( I know what my wife thinks!) I don't even play these games and some of them are still on the sprue.... (I know the shame and horror! I even bought a Demon Prince model for A:EF I hadn't even touched yet! shake ). Should I homebrew a campaign out of Space Hulk? DW:overkill? Execution Force? Or Lost Patrol? ( ok Lost Patrol would be a stretch!) My rambling is getting off track but this has been bugging me for a bit.

So back to the original question...I WANT to WANT these games. I really do. I've read all the blogs and gameplay videos about Calth and the variations look really cool (the guy doing the badab war blog from Calth is super cool!). I've done the same with Prospero, but...sigh.... I just can't do it.

Getting that 'break up' feeling with GW, I think this goes back to the old "It's not you it's me"... maybe I just have to realize these aren't the games for me after all. It's not the games fault. Everybody else on the planet seems to realize these are just a way of getting cheap mini's for 30/40k why can't I just move on?

As I stare hopelessly out my office window gazing at my reflection over grey skies and never ending rain, my heavy heart wants to look forward to Blood Bowl and Necromunda but maybe my heart was intended for another.. another universe.


Maybe one with wookies... or zombies...
so many games, so precious little free time.
soblue





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Niko J
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I'm interested, but also time & money conscious so I don't buy everything or even that fast. I want both user experiences and good reviews, latter of which is really hard to find for these GW 'boardgames'. Cardboard Children, DriveThruReview and Kevin here have been a big help in that.

Right now I own Space Hulk and Deathwatch: Overkill, latter still in sprues due to my painting queue. I look up each new release with glee but I'm in no hurry to buy stuff. That's partly because these are expensive things, more-so as I like to buy well after release date from local stores. And we all know how long it can take to assemble and paint these things. Right now GW also seems to be putting a lot of effort into their brand of board games. Cautious consumer in me wants to wait this out, maybe Prospero is superior to Calth (different not better from what little I can tell), maybe Silver Tower gets a new box with a different theme and ironed out mechanics? Although I'm happy with their current direction of bravely trying out various rule sets. Unlike above poster I don't want this to turn into an FFG-esque expansion factory. Different strokes for different folks.

So right now I've promised myself (and the wife..) not to splurge on GW's extravagant board games before I get the last one painted up. And the way things are looking it might be a while... But hey, maybe then I can buy Warhammer Quest: Skavenblight or whatever else they've got cooking for next year.
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Kevin Outlaw
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jombie wrote:


As I stare hopelessly out my office window gazing at my reflection over grey skies and never ending rain, my heavy heart wants to look forward to Blood Bowl and Necromunda but maybe my heart was intended for another.. another universe.



I can understand that. I would have really liked Prospero to be an extension of Calth, but the thing is, it kinda wouldn't have worked. The game is very specific to the scenario. There is a definite structure to play that revolves around one side being psychically very strong, and one side being very tough in a scuffle. To create that situation with Calth would have involved introducing new phases, and Calth is streamlined and brilliant, but doesn't have a lot of design space for making those large changes.

By the same token, I very much doubt there will ever be an expansion for Prospero. The latest White Dwarf dropped what could be an Easter Egg or could be a red herring (the fact that the designers "expect" to see a game in which Leman Russ duels with Magnus), but I doubt it would be an expansion to this game.

I am at peace with the idea of each Horus Heresy game being it's own thing. The idea is growing on me slightly. There is something lovely about a game that perfectly represents a defining moment in arguably the richest gaming universe ever created. I like that the rules are tailored to create a cinematic experience of an exact scene, which is harder if you are trying to shoe-horn elements into a generic rules set.

There are possibly other ways of doing it - a core rule set that always stays the same, I would have liked to see hexes remaining if nothing else - but it is what it is. And I love the fact that I can pick up an of my GW games and play them without rereading the rules. That in itself is quite a feat.

On the plus side, we know for certain that Blood Bowl is getting lots of support, through teams, league rules, star players, and more. As for Silver Tower... the rumours exist, but still not a peep from GW to confirm anything. If an expansion comes out for that, I'm going to be very happy.

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Cutthroat Cardboard (Barry)
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RedMonkeyBoy wrote:

I am at peace with the idea of each Horus Heresy game being it's own thing. The idea is growing on me slightly. There is something lovely about a game that perfectly represents a defining moment in arguably the richest gaming universe ever created. I like that the rules are tailored to create a cinematic experience of an exact scene, which is harder if you are trying to shoe-horn elements into a generic rules set.



I think I'm getting to that place. Keen as I was/am to have a Calth expansion the simplicity and streamlined nature of these games maybe gives more bang for the buck than dropping them all under one system. If we are able to use the models from multiple games in other systems this may actually open up the gaming experience rather than give you more of the same?

In some ways Prospero's design looks the easiest to expand as a general system. It still has the multiple weapon and armor options of Calth but the grid board with blocking terrain is easy to work out scenario designs and the psychic deck could be dropped or replaced if not required.

I suspect that most of us have ideas for expanding on these systems but for those with existing collections of models the game boards are probably the biggest challenge to replicate in the same quality and are the least likely expansion for GW to support without a new boxed game. Maybe we don't need the same game system but games that could share tiles and models might be nice?
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jhebert wrote:
How about you?

I own Space Hulk 1st ed. bought "back then" (sigh), as well as the old fantasy WH and past editions of WH40K; with teen friends we used to play the Epic 40K system too - big big time.

What I love, and what I want from GW (board)games, are 3 things:

1. gorgeous, eyecandy yet creative table glance

2. easy to pick, easy to play, interesting decisions but no brainburner

3. FUN!

Point #1 is clear (to me at least): Zombicide is eyecandy, many FFG games are eyecandy... but GW specific (again, imho, and for my kiddo experience) is the creative blow that pops up from their games and hits you.
I'm thinking about John Blanche. Designers like Andy Chambers, or Rick Priestley.
Is it a british thing? I do think so. David Bowie, Helen Bradley, Richard Garriott and Lord Nelson at Trafalgar.
So point #1, is the emotion. Not necessarily "new" (Space Marines are fanatic Roman Empire legions in a sci-fi setting, after all), but the power with which are shown.

Point #2 is essential.
Essential.
Those days I do not have the clock time I used to have, anymore. Once I had hours, now they are minutes. I love complex wargame simulations, but the manuals are big and cumbersome so either
a. you keep playing them constantly, so the rules are always fresh in your mind or
b. the delta between the months elapsed from one session to the other forces you to re-re-learn many sub-rules from scratch, each time.
Unbearable.
And that is true even for some FFG games (FFG old designs to be honest), full of bits and "things" to apply. As well as some euro/german games (I'm thinking about Feld).
On the opposite, some GW boxed games are straight-to-the-point, essential in a good way. Yeah, model assemblying required - but that's not an issue with me, it's like gardening, or Ikea-assembling, and probably we men are well versed in those "building" activities, on the average. (Not that this is a gender-specific hobby, of course) ninja
So point #2, a game to play, not a cumbersome housework.

Point #3 is really subjective and almost related to the previous 2 points. A nice looking game, easy to play and with interesting decisions, is probably a fun one. But there is one other thing that really works for me: DICE.
Oh how fun is to roll a bucket of 12mm 6-sided dice! They feel good in my hand!
It was fun with Battlefleet Gothic. It is - incredibly - fun in Warhammer Quest Silver Tower. Fun and tense in Space Hulk, and so on.
Dice are random (oh really?!) and that's really fun. You can't blame yourself too much for losing - yeah, dice hate me. Plus, on the average the boxed games are really fast-playing: no hurt from losing after 45 mins for a bad roll. (Well...)
And to be frank, rolling a lot of dice tend to normalize (is it the right word?) the distribution of results, on the average, so it's ok. That's why A House Divided works, and many others roll-roll games.
Oh, yes - I play boxed games for the game itself: I'm not interested in building an army and then sell the boards/cards...

---

TL;DR: a long story short, in recent times I bought Warhammer Quest Silver Tower, enjoyed it immensely. Immensely. Pure simple sheer fun.

I bought a box of Skaven Pestilens (20 models) and houseruled them as "exotic monsters" for Silver Tower.

I recently discovered Betrayal at Calth, saw some gameplay videos, read the reviews, checked the material online - then, made a quick&dirt P&P demo of the first mission:





Verdict: fun! FUN!
And simple, very simple, but I think I'll remember the rules forever from now on (just like Space Hulk!)

They did it again! It's Space Hulk-level fun for me (and my adorable yet forbearing wife...she lost as the Space Marines, but...with grace - I think)

So - my plans.
- Pick a Calth copy as soon as possible.
- Meanwhile, trying to build a P&P for Prospero and see "how it works". Check reviews, videos, pics.
- Keep an eye on Silver Tower new boxed set (...because, there'll be a new release for it, apart from heroes and cards expansion, I guess..?)
- Definitely keep an eye for a Battlefleet Gothic release! (Instant buy)

- Really, I'm on the fence - I love Calth fastplay and hex boards more, but Prospero has probably a lot of variety and amazing models... not a fan of Prospero boards nor the psi cards and the D&D-like multi dice format; me, D6 forever;
If I'll get both Calth and Prospero, probably I'll end up houseruling Prospero to play with Calth system


Wrapping up: to me, Games Workshop still delivers, and I say this as a non-fanboy at all. Price point is high, but it's the "true" WH40(30)K to me. I own and play Forbidden Stars and WH40K Conquest, they're very good games, but they're...games. GW makes worlds.

... Blessed is the mind too small for doubt. arrrh
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I'm 'blindly' buying it if it has;
- great miniatures I want to paint (so no Lost Patrol as I have those minis)
- something unique and replayable, which can usually be judged on press release information instead of waiting for reviews
- what my friends aren't all buying either (so no Silver Tower nor Calth as friends jumped on that with enthusiasm)
- Most important; what I can keep up with painting. I can buy games and put them in a closet, but my enthusiasm will dwindle. They won't get painted. That's a waste, so I have a rule that I paint it from the moment I bought it. This caused me to skip Gorechosen (for now).

Battle for Prospero had horrible timing as it came out when the Conan Kickstarter finally arrived, but it's my favorite battle and legion so of course I'm buying it. I'm building and painting it the coming weeks.
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Marc Nelson Jr.
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I'll be buying it - just as soon as I can find someone to buy all the miniatures and leave me the game.
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Chris Montgomery
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Actually, that's very common on Ebay - in a month or two you can probably pick up just the components (minus minis) on Ebay for a song. After Calth came out, I purchased a zillion of the custom dice for $5 + shipping. Complete sets of the game without minis were going for $15-$20 USD.

Good luck, Marc!
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cmontgo2 wrote:
Actually, that's very common on Ebay - in a month or two you can probably pick up just the components (minus minis) on Ebay for a song. After Calth came out, I purchased a zillion of the custom dice for $5 + shipping. Complete sets of the game without minis were going for $15-$20 USD.

Good luck, Marc!


Yes, I have Calth minus minis - I'm working on some standees for it now.

What are you doing with all the dice?
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Chris Montgomery
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Ah, it was one of those things, you know -- so cheap! Why not? It was more than enough for my opponent(s) and I not to have to exchange the dice. And at the time, I was thinking they would come up with other expansions and the dice might end up useful. 'Twas not to be, of course. Not yet.
 
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Somehow, between old stuff from long forgotten 40K days, and selective, scattered purchases for Space Hulk, Assassinorum, and Calth, I've manged to amass a magical combination of two flavors of Tactical Marines, some Sisters of Battle, Chaos Terminators, cleverly converted Adeptus Custodes, and two opposing characters, to field everything I need to play Prospero with minimal proxies, and accurate weapons (except, set in 40K, vice 30K). Absolutely NO foresight on my part, just dumb luck.

So, I just bought Prospero without miniatures off eBay for $19.95. Now, I'm NOT saying this is the best or cheapest way to go. If starting from scratch, it's probably cheaper to just buy the dang game off the shelf. And, the miniatures that come with Prospero look might damn tasty. IF the Adeptus Custodes did not appear to be out sized, and almost off scale, they would be a MUST buy, by themselves. Ditto, Sisters of Silence. We shall see if resolve again crumbles before desire.

As for the game, I dunno. I was skeptical about Assassinorum. But it has proven to be a fan favorite. Calth didn't look like the right scale, and with funky mechanics. Whatever, I love that game! Brilliant mechanics and challenging game play. I really wasn't hopeful about Deathwatch: Overkill, but I had to buy it for the Genestealer Cult. It's a lot more fun that I expected. Prospero appears to be a cross between Calth and Deathwatch. That's a pretty good purebred lineage, but it could make for a mutt. I'll know for sure in a few days. And, what the heck, my miniatures are all already assembled, painted, and ready to play.
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Depends on the IP. I have not bought Gorechosen or Lost "You are going to die and you can never win this game" Patrol but each of the Horus Heresy games are great buys. I also bought Silver Tower and will buy Blood Bowl again... for the 3rd time...

So far of the boxed games Gorechosen and Lost Patrol are the only ones I will probably never buy. Although Gorechosen is VERYYY tempting.
 
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@Zombie Mark - With having as much experience as you do with the GW boxed games, I would really like a review from you regarding the mechanics of Prospero vice the other games and what you think. So when you take it for a test-drive, please share your thoughts either in an official review (preferred) or just a new thread. Either way, I'll give you some GG.
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I'm curious Mark, when you say Deathwatch: Overkill is more fun than you expected, do you mean that you think it's a good game? I mean you could have had really low expectations

I'm very much on the fence about Overkill. I'm sure I'd have a great time assembling and painting the models, but for the price I'd really like there to be a fun game in there too!



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Grumsh wrote:
Depends on the IP. I have not bought Gorechosen or Lost "You are going to die and you can never win this game" Patrol but each of the Horus Heresy games are great buys. I also bought Silver Tower and will buy Blood Bowl again... for the 3rd time...

So far of the boxed games Gorechosen and Lost Patrol are the only ones I will probably never buy. Although Gorechosen is VERYYY tempting.


Lost Patrol requires rule tweaks, but it plays so fast, it's fun. I got to play a few games with revised rules, and my opponent and I had a good time. We played 3 games in a half-hour. I mean, that's some exciting value - and if it's handy.

I also used it as a "test game" for how to paint the marines/scouts and tyranids before diving in to the more expensive games and their minis. It was good practice.
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cmontgo2 wrote:
@Zombie Mark - With having as much experience as you do with the GW boxed games, I would really like a review from you regarding the mechanics of Prospero vice the other games and what you think. So when you take it for a test-drive, please share your thoughts either in an official review (preferred) or just a new thread. Either way, I'll give you some GG.

Chris thanks for the vote of confidence. Don't know if I've really earned it. My experiences are broad, but shallow. I've played a bunch of the games, I haven't played any of the games a bunch (except Space Hulk and Calth). I need to be more aggressive about corralling opponents. I may have to use a tranquilizer gun to get in a few games of Prospero with my usual opponent (his daytime gig seems to be getting in the way of gaming). Be warned, unless I find something I REALLY don't like about a game, I'm usually fairly complimentary. I'm more afraid of unfairly discouraging players, than I am of warning them off.

quazai wrote:
I'm curious Mark, when you say Deathwatch: Overkill is more fun than you expected, do you mean that you think it's a good game? I mean you could have had really low expectations

I'm very much on the fence about Overkill. I'm sure I'd have a great time assembling and painting the models, but for the price I'd really like there to be a fun game in there too!

My first experience with GW games was Space Hulk when it was new. Me and Genestealers just hit it off (OK, Alien and Aliens are my favorite SciFi movies). Not much later, Genestealer Cult was my first 40K army (and still is, I still have the primordial hybrid figs). So, I had to have the new Deathwatch box, with it's spanking new Genestealer Cult. I immediately bought the first copy as it came out of the first shipping container at my FLGS. It's assembled, painted (poorly), and done been played a few times.

My early research on the game made me leery. A man-to-alien shooting game with NO terrain features was not encouraging. Of course, the high quality of components was expected and appreciated.

I think you have to enjoy the game for what it is, not dislike it what it isn't. It is the part of the movie where the suspenseful music is drowned out by gunfire. It's the part where the good guys and bad guys just shoot and slap the crap out of each other. There is room and reason to maneuver. There is no terrain (except pitfalls). But, the range ruler is a sort of terrain. It determines who, and how hard you can fight or fire at foes.

The Deathwatch Marine player has lot's of options in the form of special abilities. These marines fight like they read in background blurbs and 40K novels. Awesomely.

The GSC player has even more options in converting randomly drawn reinforcement cards into gambits. Clever combinations of gambits can swing a game. I only wish the graphic design of the cards had better differentiated fluff from function. Until the GSC player is familiar with most of the cards, the game slows to a crawl while he sorts out which will be reinforcements, and which will be devious gambits.

What Deathwatch is not is a more nuanced and tactical game like Betrayal at Calth. Calth I can recommend without reservation. DW:OK is more straight forward and more direct. With Calth, you maneuver to fight. With DW:OK, you maneuver in the fight.

OK, to be sure, these are GW miniature board games. They aren't layered, they don't have 50 moving parts with 5 ways to win (my regular opponent likes multi-stage games like FFG's Horus Heresy, to name one in the same background). I don't want that in every game I play.

If you want the DW:OK miniatures, there is a fun game there to play with them. I just can't say there is enough of a game to warrant the purchase for mainly the game (and, for those who violently disagree, chime in and set me straight).

I hope that was sufficiently vague. I strive for plausible deniability. I'm still obsessing over my decision to not dwell in the past.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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@Zombiemark

I agree with you about Overkill. Of all the new releases it seems the weakest of the bunch. Notice I say weakest not that is a bad game.

Overkill feels like they took Space Hulk, Killed the Claustrophobia aspect, and replaced it with the Gambit cards. Whether or not you (the reader) thinks this is a good thing depends on how much you like claustrophobia versus Gambit cards. I personally think it loses something. I would not say it is a bad game quite the opposite actually but I would say it is really a Skirmish game with a set force versus a mutable force.

Currently Overkill is shelved waiting for GW to release the official Cult Rules for Space Hulk. Would I play it if asked? Sure but that is after I made pleading obvious glances towards Space Hulk sitting next to it.
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Mark
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Grumsh wrote:
GW to release the official Cult Rules for Space Hulk.

Hope springs eternal.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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ZombieMark wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
GW to release the official Cult Rules for Space Hulk.

Hope springs eternal.


2 years ago it was a dream, nowadays, I am saving money for Necromunda, jus' sayin'!
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Ryan R
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I kick myself for giving my Rogue Trader, beakies platoon, and Predator away 15+ years ago.

Kick myself for not getting Blood Bowl back in the 90's.
Kick myself for not getting Space Hulk 1st edition when I could have.

So, I shall not make these mistakes again.

Space Hulk 4th is in my collection.
The AoS starter is in my collection
Calth, minus minis, is in my collection.
Battle for Vedros, paint set, and Ork bike are in my collection.
Prospero will be in my collection soon.

Can't pass this one up.

WAAAARRRGGGGGHHH!!!
 
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Kevin Outlaw
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The Wing Warrior - learn more at www.facebook.com/thelegendriders
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Grumsh wrote:
ZombieMark wrote:
Grumsh wrote:
GW to release the official Cult Rules for Space Hulk.

Hope springs eternal.


2 years ago it was a dream, nowadays, I am saving money for Necromunda, jus' sayin'!


Can you imagine how good the miniatures for Necromunda are going to be?!
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