$15.00
$5.00
$20.00
$30.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
15 Posts

Flamme Rouge» Forums » Variants

Subject: Corners rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Derek Long
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Somebody already noted that corners have no special role in the game. I wondered whether this idea would work: on corner tiles, the first rank of squares entered are "no passing" spaces, so if both are occupied, riders moving later cannot pass. The thematic justification is simply that corners make manoeuvring more tricky, so it is harder to negotiate freely through the peleton. From a game play perspective, it makes entry into corners just a little more difficult to read, and less attractive for a break away going in.

Any thoughts from those with more play experience than me?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Benji
Switzerland
Gurmels
FR
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I was one of those who "noted". That was before i actually played the game. Now i agree with the designer that turns would have too much of an impact if they had special rules. Breaking away from the pack is already hard (but not impossible) to achieve (as it should be), making it even harder would probably lead to rather boring games where everybody stayed together for the whole race.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Long
United Kingdom
London
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
That sounds entirely sensible and reasonable. Presumably, that does not preclude the option of including such a rule for specific "hair-pin bends" that might introduce a different tactical challenge at one or two points in the race.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Miguel
France
Caen
(from Valencia, Spain)
flag msg tools
designer
My best-rated game: Tetrarchia, about the tetrarchy that saved Rome
badge
My latest game: Big*Bang, a simple abstract about the first minutes of the Universe
mbmbmbmbmb
I remember the author saying that at the scale of a race (about 200 km) the shape of the road had absolutely no impact, only the slopes. It's not like Formula1 or MotoGP, where bends have a strong impact on overtaking. In cycling, it's the strength that will let you overtake, not the shape of the road.

I had the same feeling you had when I saw the first pictures, but the author reasons were very convincing! Other cycling games feel weird now, with bends having an impact...


PS/ He said it here.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sandy Wilson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I can agree that corners have no impact over a 200km stage, however it depends what the scale of the game you want is. If you want to play stages, then corners are nothing special. However, if you want to recreate the excitement of the final Km of a race, as the title suggests, then I believe that some of the corners should have some rules to represent the tight bends you get in some sprint finishes.

I'll admit I've not played it yet, as I'm trying to find somewhere that actually has a copy! Once I track it down I'll play it as intended for a bit first too. However, I will definitely be trying some options for corners to see if I can come up with something that works.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simon Barnes
United Kingdom
Leigh
Lancs
flag msg tools
What about when entering tight turns your speed is limited, if the speed you select is above this it is ignored however if you want to maintain the speed above the limit you take an exhaust card?

This could represent the rider having to slow down to negotiate the turn but then tire himself by accelerating up to his original speed if he so chooses.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Srdj
Croatia
Vancouver
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Maybe all the players that are in the corner in a group should all play a card face down at the same time. Then all reveal at same time and who has the highest strength card would go first, and so on...basically sacrificing a higher card if you want to be first to go ahead. Or something similar to Formula 90!, where players can challenge other players in corners.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Cro1 wrote:
Maybe all the players that are in the corner in a group should all play a card face down at the same time. Then all reveal at same time and who has the highest strength card would go first, and so on...basically sacrificing a higher card if you want to be first to go ahead. Or something similar to Formula 90!, where players can challenge other players in corners.


You can pass through riders in front, even if both lanes are occupied, so this would not be that different from the normal rules.

Personally, I think having lanes on the track is unnecessary and am working on a variant without any lanes or corners.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
john newman
United States
Lafayette
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
simon_j_barnes wrote:
What about when entering tight turns your speed is limited, if the speed you select is above this it is ignored however if you want to maintain the speed above the limit you take an exhaust card?

This could represent the rider having to slow down to negotiate the turn but then tire himself by accelerating up to his original speed if he so chooses.


In road cycling, it's all about the hills, cobblestones and wind. Corners have no impact on the final outcome of a World Tour Race. The only exception would be a tight turn within in the last kilometer, (after you pass the the Flamme Rouge). Other than possibly the last tile that represents the finish, turns shouldn't have any special rules, IMO.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Perhaps downhill corners, but the cost of going too fast shouldn't be an exhaustion. At the scale of FR, the track seems too macro to simulate negotiating a technical downhill. Leader 1 tries to simulate this with the black spots on the cobble and downhill tiles, increasing your chance of a crash.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard Dewsbery
United Kingdom
Sutton Coldfield
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
With perhaps the sole exception of SOME corners on SOME sprint stages, the twists and turns in the parcours are totally irrelevant in a bike race. No one-day classic was ever won because of some clever tactic employed on a bend with 80k to go.

Whereas profile is everything. There's a reason why, when we get our annual guide to the TdF, it's the profile of a stage that we turn to first. Can the sprinters get over those hills? Will a breakaway get caught between those two peaks? Where will the climbers attack?

And anyone who has spent 100+ miles in the saddle will tell you that they never remember a particular bend* or corner. It's the descents and ascents that live on after the ride in the minds (and legs).

* okay, I remember one particular bend extremely well, as it was the last one I took for ten long months. But it wasn't the curve of the road that did for me as much as the gradient (and the speed. And mostly the sudden, catastrophic loss of grip thanks to a wet manhole cover).
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
For many that don't watch cycling but watched the races during the Rio Olympics, it did seem like the downhill corners determined the winner. But that was an unusual course.

But I agree that profile is what matters and I'm surprised more cycling games haven't gone the route of using a profile track. Tour Cycle Free is the only one I know of, but there may be others.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
john newman
United States
Lafayette
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Ryan Keane wrote:
For many that don't watch cycling but watched the races during the Rio Olympics, it did seem like the downhill corners determined the winner. But that was an unusual course.

But I agree that profile is what matters and I'm surprised more cycling games haven't gone the route of using a profile track. Tour Cycle Free is the only one I know of, but there may be others.


The Rio course and some other treacherous decents would be an argument for having one descent tile that has a treacherous corner in which riders must slow down or risk fall. Then you could have a rider with a special trait that could go two movement points over the posted speed.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ryan Keane
United States
Medford
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
johnpnewman wrote:
Ryan Keane wrote:
For many that don't watch cycling but watched the races during the Rio Olympics, it did seem like the downhill corners determined the winner. But that was an unusual course.

But I agree that profile is what matters and I'm surprised more cycling games haven't gone the route of using a profile track. Tour Cycle Free is the only one I know of, but there may be others.


The Rio course and some other treacherous decents would be an argument for having one descent tile that has a treacherous corner in which riders must slow down or risk fall. Then you could have a rider with a special trait that could go two movement points over the posted speed.


What happens if you only draw cards above the speed limit? Are you forced to crash? I wonder what might be the best way to incorporate falls/crashes in FR. It seems to me that the main thing that a new cobblestone terrain should do would be to increase chance of falls. Having to stop and not move a turn for example seems too costly for a random effect. Perhaps it could be something like "Discard the top card (or 2) of your deck" - basically you have to spend some undetermined amount of energy to avoid a fall. But if you discarded exhaustion or low cards, it can be a benefit, so I don't know.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
john newman
United States
Lafayette
Louisiana
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Good point - no risk of failing. Just make it the maximum speed for the descent corner. Riders with descending ability (or goo handling ability) can travel two over (or one- but I think the rider needs to be able get a gap on the other riders for this to be worthwhile) the max posted speed. If their card is three over the posted speed, they can only go two over.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.