wakasm wakasm
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
made you look.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb

Some small RTL questions.


1) We often have cases where due to how the AI is on monsters are activated, monsters are activated in such a way where one group bottlenecks in a hallway and the next group is left with nothing to do.

In these scenarios... where the monsters actions would lead to a double engage, like below:

∞ Engage the hero with the most Health remaining.
∞ Attack an adjacent hero. Then retreat. (skips)
∞ If within 2 spaces of a hero, perform a move action and retreat (skips)

They often can't engage in one action due to how many squares are filled with friendly monsters, but can if you stack the movement points to run past. For instance.

A monster with a speed of 4 can't get to the front lines by using a single engage action of 4 movement points, then another single engage action of 4 movement points, and then is forced to just use 1 mp to move up, then 0 mp and sit there... but COULD run past friendly units if it took 2 engage actions back to back, stocking up 8 movement points, and running past all the friendly monsters that are stuck in it's way. An OL could do this in the actual game (as can heroes), but it's not specified in the AI, and unless I am missing it, it's not specified in the rules.

I guess what I am asking is... do MP stay much like in the real game, so that if a monster does 1 engage, and only partially uses MP, the rest roll over into the second engage, so it can run ahead if it somehow amasses enough to do so.


2) I've read a few threads on this, but I feel like there have been different opinions on it. With the whole AOE nerf, if you target 1 monster (A) with a blast, and it hits 3 other monsters (B,C,D) does monster A get the full damage, or do you get to choose any of the 4 monsters (A,B,C,D) to get the full damage and then the other 3 get the half damage?

We've had a few instances where people have used the choice to target a minion to do full damage to a master/lieutenant/boss and was curious if that is how it actually worked.


3) Tokens. The wolf and some of the other special class tokens. It seems like you can really game the AI with these, and was curious if there were any special rules that I missed for tokens, because you can really set up scenarios where the AI is constantly targeting tokens instead of you.



thanks!






1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr G
United Kingdom
Hatfield Heath
Essex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Have had Descent 2 since launch but only really getting into it with the app.

I'm no expert, but here are my thoughts...

1. I don't believe that you can double up. Using choke points seems very important to the heroes. The barghests are particularly good at sneaking through gaps, so the odd occasion where monsters are totally blocked are a godsend.

2. I believe that you target A but can choose to apply full damage to A or an adjacent monster, with half damage going to other adjacent monsters ( possibly including A).

3. Causing the ai to target tokens seems part of the tactics. I used the Necromancer and the animate did a great job here in soaking up attacks. That said, quite a few monster behaviours will ignore tokens as they often look for targets with specific characteristics, eg most health, lowest attribute, etc.

Even with all of these options against the ai, I am still finding it quite challenging. I seem to be going too slowly.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fox Reinard
msg tools
Avatar
In answer to 2) You choose one monster to receive full damage and all others get the half damage. (Attacking Multiple Monsters rule)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle Pede
Canada
Abbotsford
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
foxreinard wrote:
In answer to 2) You choose one monster to receive full damage and all others get the half damage. (Attacking Multiple Monsters rule)


Where is this rule?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Simo Ahava
Finland
Espoo
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
InfinityBlack14 wrote:
foxreinard wrote:
In answer to 2) You choose one monster to receive full damage and all others get the half damage. (Attacking Multiple Monsters rule)


Where is this rule?

In the Road to Legend rules, under Attacking Multiple Monsters.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kyle Pede
Canada
Abbotsford
British Columbia
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
sahava wrote:
InfinityBlack14 wrote:
foxreinard wrote:
In answer to 2) You choose one monster to receive full damage and all others get the half damage. (Attacking Multiple Monsters rule)


Where is this rule?

In the Road to Legend rules, under Attacking Multiple Monsters.


Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wakasm wakasm
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
made you look.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
fentum wrote:
Have had Descent 2 since launch but only really getting into it with the app.


1. I don't believe that you can double up. Using choke points seems very important to the heroes. The barghests are particularly good at sneaking through gaps, so the odd occasion where monsters are totally blocked are a godsend.

Even with all of these options against the ai, I am still finding it quite challenging. I seem to be going too slowly.


So to be clear. When a monster uses an engage action - lets say speed 4 - they generate 4 movement points. Let's say, because of how monsters clump they can only engage (move forward) 1 space currently, using 1 movement point. Leaving 3 available movement points that they can't use. They cycle actions until the next engage action. The monster loses the 3 unused movement points when it does it's second engage action, and now has 4 to spend again, which is can use 0 movement points?

Do you lose movement points in the main game, or do they stay for the entire turn?



 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sean Kolodji
United States
Laporte
Minnesota
flag msg tools
mb
In my opinion, if they only things the monster can do is engage twice, I would use all it's movement points. If necessary to get past a blockage I would move, interrupt that move with another move action, then finish first move action. That's how monsters can normally move and there was nothing in the app rules to change those rules. But you're playing against an app and it's not going to argue with you if you tweak the rules to make it easier for yourself.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Campo
United Kingdom
Manchester
lancashire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
i had the same move question on the ffg forum.. and was told to add the 2 moves together engage 4 move is possible storuing up unused points engage again +4 can probaly now get past the blockage total 8 moves..

as for the blast..
wouldnt the monster you 1st target with the attack take the full damage?
then any adjacent take the blast damage.??
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark P
Canada
Kitchener
ONTARIO
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I would make the monster use both actions to move if it meant they couldn't do anything else in their action list because of distance. Engage and use all movement points, cycle through actions it can't do and then engage again with all movement points. So 8 moves total by your example of a 4 movement speed monster.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
drshizzlewink wrote:
In my opinion, if they only things the monster can do is engage twice, I would use all it's movement points. If necessary to get past a blockage I would move, interrupt that move with another move action, then finish first move action. That's how monsters can normally move and there was nothing in the app rules to change those rules. But you're playing against an app and it's not going to argue with you if you tweak the rules to make it easier for yourself.


Exactly. When I play the app, I move monsters like I was the overlord. If the monster can interrupt one engage with another to get in a better position, it does. Otherwise I find there are too many scenarios where large monsters do nothing.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kevin Clark
United States
Galesburg
Illinois
flag msg tools
You have to activate the actions in sequence. In your example it would move 1 space unable to move with its 3 remaining movement points. However unspent movement points from the first engage action remain available. They do not go away when you cycle to the next engage action which generates a second batch of movement points which would add together. So on the second action it would engage again and now have 7 movement points to spend (3 remaining plus 4 new.)

The remaining movement points are needed for those actions where a monster spots on its first action and then on its second attacks and retreats. The monster will attack and then retreat with any movement points it has remaining from its spot action.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johannes Benedikt
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zaltyre wrote:
drshizzlewink wrote:
In my opinion, if they only things the monster can do is engage twice, I would use all it's movement points. If necessary to get past a blockage I would move, interrupt that move with another move action, then finish first move action. That's how monsters can normally move and there was nothing in the app rules to change those rules. But you're playing against an app and it's not going to argue with you if you tweak the rules to make it easier for yourself.


Exactly. When I play the app, I move monsters like I was the overlord. If the monster can interrupt one engage with another to get in a better position, it does. Otherwise I find there are too many scenarios where large monsters do nothing.


pretty much how I play as well, but I guess it depends on the circumstances. If you already have a hard time against the app you don't have to move the monster optimally, if you find it too easy, this will make it more challanging.

Blast is kind of worded badly in the RtL rules. Basically you have to TARGET a space that contains a monster with your attack. The monster on the space that is targeted by the attack suffers full damage. Then each monster adjacent to the targeted space is AFFECTED by the blast-attack. Monsters affected by the attack suffer half the damage rounded up. Although the rules kind of suggest you can pick one monster, this isn't true for Blast, because you have to resolve the attack against the targeted monster first and the attack modifier "blast" is only resolved after you dealt the damage to the targeted monster. As the RtL rules state that the first monster you resolve an attack that deals damage to multiple monsters against, will suffer the full damage, it has to be the targeted monster and can't be an affected one.

So when can you choose?
Basically there is the Geomancer-class that can Blast, but there is no target (the summoned stone just blows up) and the attack only affects monsters and doesn't target one.

If an attack doesn't target one monster and affects multiple monsters, but targets multiple monsters.

hf playing!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Paul
United States
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Regarding Blast, I don't believe your sequence of events is correct. For the sake of applying to the most situations, let's assume this attack gains blast via a surge ability. If the attack has native blast (like "Exploding Rune") it will not change the outcome.

Step 1: Target a monster.
Step 2: You roll your attack pool, that monster rolls its defense pool.
Step 3: Check range (you've got enough, the attack does not miss)
Step 4: Spend a surge on "blast". This causes the adjacent figures (now affected by the attack) to roll their defense pools.
Step 5: Deal damage to one monster of your choice using the full attack results. Then, deal damage to each other monster (in an order of the attacker's choosing) using half the damage results against the figure's full shield result.

As stated before, the only difference during a "native" blast attack is that all affected figures would roll their defense dice during step 2, rather than some waiting until step 4.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fox Reinard
msg tools
Avatar
DA_Maz wrote:
As the RtL rules state that the first monster you resolve an attack that deals damage to multiple monsters against, will suffer the full damage, it has to be the targeted monster and can't be an affected one.


My reading disagrees with this statement. Perhaps you can tell me what page you read to draw that conclusion. This one is from Page 10:

Road to Legend Rulebook wrote:

ATTACKING MULTIPLE MONSTERS
When a hero performs an attack that targets or affects multiple monsters, the monsters gain an additional advantage during the “Deal Damage” step. Choose 1 monster to which you will deal damage first and resolve the step as normal. Then halve the ❤ results (rounded up), and apply that value to each of the additional monsters, before applying ⛊. This rule applies to attacks with Blast but also actions such as “Whirlwind,” “Army of Death,” and Leoric of the Book’s Heroic Feat.


Bolding is mine, to note that it is explicit about including Blast.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johannes Benedikt
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
zaltyre wrote:
Regarding Blast, I don't believe your sequence of events is correct. For the sake of applying to the most situations, let's assume this attack gains blast via a surge ability. If the attack has native blast (like "Exploding Rune") it will not change the outcome.

Step 1: Target a monster.
Step 2: You roll your attack pool, that monster rolls its defense pool.
Step 3: Check range (you've got enough, the attack does not miss)
Step 4: Spend a surge on "blast". This causes the adjacent figures (now affected by the attack) to roll their defense pools.
Step 5: Deal damage to one monster of your choice using the full attack results. Then, deal damage to each other monster (in an order of the attacker's choosing) using half the damage results against the figure's full shield result.

As stated before, the only difference during a "native" blast attack is that all affected figures would roll their defense dice during step 2, rather than some waiting until step 4.


Thx for your correction.

I thought since you only roll your defense pool in step 2 and additional monsters have to roll their defense pool that every monster affected by blast will commence a new attack starting from step 2 (without the attacker rolling dice).

The implications that your correction made are very impactfull, so plz tell me what's correct.

1) Figures affected by blast don't need to be within range to get hit.

now the big one:
2) Either Figures affected by blast are not allowed to reroll their defense-dice, or you can reroll your defense dice after the surge has been spent (which is very important for conditions). This would also mean that attackers can spend their surge and then reroll their dice and that they can reroll their dice and not need to pay attention to range anymore, after they succeeded in the range check.

ty
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Fox Reinard
msg tools
Avatar
1) Correct, other than the target space, blast can affect things that are not within the rolled Range (or even Line of Sight) for the attack.

2) I'm unsure why you would be rerolling anything, apart from game effects that instruct you to reroll.

If you prefer to "keep it fair" and not know what the defense results will be when you choose the target to take the full damage, you can probably wait until you know it's a Blast attack before you roll any defense dice. It's your RtL game after all, and however you choose to play is up to you

(This includes your earlier interpretation that you must apply full damage to the target of the attack rather than choosing.)
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Johannes Benedikt
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
foxreinard wrote:
1) Correct, other than the target space, blast can affect things that are not within the rolled Range (or even Line of Sight) for the attack.

2) I'm unsure why you would be rerolling anything, apart from game effects that instruct you to reroll.

If you prefer to "keep it fair" and not know what the defense results will be when you choose the target to take the full damage, you can probably wait until you know it's a Blast attack before you roll any defense dice. It's your RtL game after all, and however you choose to play is up to you

(This includes your earlier interpretation that you must apply full damage to the target of the attack rather than choosing.)


thx for your answer, but I was referring more to the general rule since there are a few interactions, where these differences are important.

For instance, there are monsters that can blast as well and there is a bard skill that let's you reroll 1 die once per round. If I'm not allowed to reroll if blast affects me, I won't save it for that occasion. On the other hand most monsters will use conditions before using bonus damage (but only if they deal damage). So if they have to pick before I have to reroll, I could let them pick and then reroll to avoid the attack completely, effectivly reducing their damage output and making them waste surges.

In the traditional 1vsmany gametype this is an even bigger thing as there are OL cards that let monsters reroll a die. If the attacker chose to spend his surge for a condition instead of bonus damage and I only need 1 more shield to block the attack completely, I would much rather reroll then, or the attacker won't risk to pick the condition for a surge if he suspects me having that card. The attacker could also circumvent rerolls by using blast on low HP targets.

In the end the range thing has me more worried. If I'm allowed to reroll after the check range step, I can risk getting powerfull shots that would normally have short range, if I already made the range check on targets that are far away.

As you can see this really has some bigger implications, if this really works how Zaltyre describes, regardless if you can't reroll your defense on affecting blast attacks, or if you can reroll after surges have been spent and range has been checked.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
wakasm wakasm
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
badge
made you look.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Attack/Defense Dice rolls happen at the same time, so you can't reroll after surges are chosen. You would have to reroll first. Surges are chosen once all the dice are locked in.

Plus, most of the things that let you re-roll have a specific timing of re-rolling. In your bard example, the card in question - Rehearsal - that lets you re-roll - "Each hero within 3 spaces of you may reroll 1 die once per round." let's you reroll... IE... right when you rolled your dice, you can reroll it. The once per round just means that you can only do it once in a round, right after rolling a die.

Same thing for your overlord example. You roll dice first. You do your rerolls. Then with the final results... the OL chooses surges. The OL gets to decide based on the final dice results, and you don't get to reroll after he chooses because your dice are now locked to their results.

So you can only reroll during the moment you roll a die - weither it's something like a strength check, attack, or defense, you have to reroll it at that time.

A reroll is simply a reroll, not a timed strategic decision that lets you interrupt anything.

The same thing happens when you check range on attacking. You roll the dice. Did you make range? No? Ok, reroll the dice. All dice locked in now? Ok, spend surges.

There are no instances where you would gain blast first by spending a surge, reroll, then get another surge, unless there is an ability that lets you add a surge after the roll (but then again, all rerolls would ahve already happened at this point.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Ozga
msg tools
mbmb
Quote:
2) Either Figures affected by blast are not allowed to reroll their defense-dice, or you can reroll your defense dice after the surge has been spent (which is very important for conditions). This would also mean that attackers can spend their surge and then reroll their dice and that they can reroll their dice and not need to pay attention to range anymore, after they succeeded in the range check.


When figures are affected by attack when attacker spends surge (blast/fire breath) they need to roll their defense dices.
You may interpret this as interrupt of attack and giving time to catch up in steps for defenders.
Newly affected figures are in step 2 of attack, so they roll defense dices and may re roll any of those dices if there is game effect which allows that. Attacker in in step 4, so he is already past the point of re rolling.
When defenders roll / reroll their dices all figures are aligned in combat steps. Attacker may spend additional surges he have on other effects. At this point defenders also can't reroll their dices.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.