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Escape from Colditz» Forums » Rules

Subject: Guards in the yard? rss

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John Van Wagoner
United States
Bluffton
South Carolina
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Can guards leave the inner courtyard if they're not chasing
POWs?

thanks...
 
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Princess Beardie
United Kingdom
Glossop
Derbyshire
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From what I can make out (and remember) in the rules, the guards can leave the inner courtyard through the spaces that would require the POWs to have a key or a pass.
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tom moughan
United States
Rochester
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ahh....I love the smell of a stack of sketchily placed animals in the morning!
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It's filed under Quick reference in the new rules:

- POWs can only move past drops, wire fences, inspection points and doors by spending an Equipment card. Guards can only move through drops and wire fences where there is an Escape Attempt marker, but can move through doors and inspection points freely.
 
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John Van Wagoner
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Bluffton
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lengthtoavoid wrote:
It's filed under Quick reference in the new rules:

- POWs can only move past drops, wire fences, inspection points and doors by spending an Equipment card. Guards can only move through drops and wire fences where there is an Escape Attempt marker, but can move through doors and inspection points freely.

- so guards can enter a room, but still can not make an arrest unless the Escape Officer has escape equip
- and guards can "block", as long as they're in a legal space

(they ref above would only apply to guards using established ropes and holes cut in the fences)
 
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Soren Hedberg
Canada
Terrace
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John_VW wrote:
lengthtoavoid wrote:
It's filed under Quick reference in the new rules:

- POWs can only move past drops, wire fences, inspection points and doors by spending an Equipment card. Guards can only move through drops and wire fences where there is an Escape Attempt marker, but can move through doors and inspection points freely.

- so guards can enter a room, but still can not make an arrest unless the Escape Officer has escape equip
- and guards can "block", as long as they're in a legal space

(they ref above would only apply to guards using established ropes and holes cut in the fences)


Rooms
These are where POWs will assemble Equipment with the matching symbol, or Escape Kits. Guards may not enter rooms unless they are pursuing a POW down
a rope, or have discovered the tunnel in that room.
 
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Nick Smith
United States
California
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There's a related question that came up in our group. Guards in the inner courtyard can only arrest someone if the Allied player has escape equipment, but in fact there's no way for the German player to know whether he does...even if you see that he's gotten some, it could have been traded away to another player, which the rules say is hidden information.

So, if a guard tries to arrest a prisoner and it turns out that there are no valid grounds, what happens?
 
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H-B-G
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Halesowen
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Smithnik wrote:
There's a related question that came up in our group. Guards in the inner courtyard can only arrest someone if the Allied player has escape equipment, but in fact there's no way for the German player to know whether he does...even if you see that he's gotten some, it could have been traded away to another player, which the rules say is hidden information.

So, if a guard tries to arrest a prisoner and it turns out that there are no valid grounds, what happens?


Where in the rules does it say that the possession of equipment is hidden information?
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Nick Smith
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It seemed to be implied by the fact that you're allowed to do secret trades and that you're not supposed to let others know which pieces you have. That's how we read that section of the rules, anyway.

So, suppose you get a piece of equipment, then give it to another player to balance out a past or future trade. Equipment card backs are the same as Opportunity card backs, so even possession of a card isn't proof that you have escape equipment.

The German knows you HAD a piece of escape equipment, so he tries to arrest one of your prisoners. You do not actually have a piece any more. So, what happens?
 
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We apologise for the inconvenience
United Kingdom
Outside of the Asylum
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We've been playing that the card faces are (obviously) kept hidden, but we keep each type of card separate, in face down piles. Perhaps that's a bit too generous to the Germans though!

I agree it's not explicitly stated how to handle this, so everyone will come up with their own methods. But at the very least, all players need to know which Escape Officers do/don't have Escape Equipment cards, as that's the only way to know whether to allow the guards to capture them in the inner courtyard.

I guess each player could just hold all their cards together in their hand, and they'd just have to make others aware if/when they acquire Escape Equipment.

Smithnik wrote:
Equipment card backs are the same as Opportunity card backs

I don't know about earlier editions, but the card backs are different in the 2016 Osprey edition...
 
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H-B-G
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Halesowen
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Pudsy wrote:
We've been playing that the card faces are (obviously) kept hidden, but we keep each type of card separate, in face down piles. Perhaps that's a bit too generous to the Germans though!

I agree it's not explicitly stated how to handle this, so everyone will come up with their own methods. But at the very least, all players need to know which Escape Officers do/don't have Escape Equipment cards, as that's the only way to know whether to allow the guards to capture them in the inner courtyard.

I guess each player could just hold all their cards together in their hand, and they'd just have to make others aware if/when they acquire Escape Equipment.

Smithnik wrote:
Equipment card backs are the same as Opportunity card backs

I don't know about earlier editions, but the card backs are different in the 2016 Osprey edition...


That's an interesting picture, I have to say that I was surprised when it was suggested that the backs were the same as opportunity cards. The Parker & Gibsons cards were certainly more different than these appear to be. See


My interpretation of that section is that you can choose not to disclose what equipment you have, but it should be known that you have equipment because the card backs are public knowledge.
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John Van Wagoner
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Bluffton
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seems to me that all cards should be hidden; there's no way the guards would know...we just play that once the POW player(s) have any equip/escape cards at all that their POW's are now "fair game" for arrest...
 
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Adam Rees
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Liss Forest
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I don't think they should be hidden i.e. the Security Officer should know if a POW player has an equipment card or not. What the Security Officer won't know is what the equipment card represents. If POW players exchange cards, then the Security Officer won't know which cards get switched, just that equipment cards have been traded.

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Kristo Vaher
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Tallinn
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This issue is not complicated

Guards may arrest in Inner Courtyard if the player holds Escape Equipment card.

Cards cannot arrest in Inner Courtyard, if the player does not hold such card.

Having this card is public information. It is written on the back of the card.
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John Van Wagoner
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Bluffton
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Iorwerth wrote:
I don't think they should be hidden i.e. the Security Officer should know if a POW player has an equipment card or not. What the Security Officer won't know is what the equipment card represents. If POW players exchange cards, then the Security Officer won't know which cards get switched, just that equipment cards have been traded.

this what i meant...the "type" of card is not hidden (it's face down), but the exact text/info on the card is...
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Nick Smith
United States
California
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Sorry, but my phrasing about the card backs was not precise.
If you hold the cards in your hand, or put them face down on the table, with an Opportunity card on top, you will see that the colors and borders are the same on the new edition, and only the wording differentiates them. So, unless the player is required to make them public, the German has no way of knowing if a prisoner is a legal arrest target. Making that information public seems to be against the spirit of the rules and the historicity of the game. It also makes the game much easier for the German player.

In play, we were finding that if the German player is given perfect information about who has equipment cards, it gives the German a huge advantage. For a few movement points, he can negate about two turns' worth of movement by an Escape Officer for each arrest made. Forcing the Allied players to keep all prisoners on safe spots each turn adds an extra layer of difficulty.

Last night we played it with me as the German, and I deliberately didn't make a single inner-courtyard arrest, to see what would happen. I was still able to beat the Allied players, although it did require using Shoot to Kill twice.

The only other way we thought of to handle this was to create a house rule to penalize the German for guessing incorrectly. For instance, if the German tries to arrest a prisoner who is "innocent" of having escape equipment, then the guard goes to the Commander's office, but the prisoner is not put in Solitary.
 
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Filip Falk Hartelius
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This is Filip from Osprey Games.

Guards can move freely in the inner and outer courtyard, following these restrictions:
- They cannot enter safe areas or the appel area
- They may only enter rooms with an Escape Attempt marker
- They may cannot move down a drop unless there's an Escape Attempt marker there. They
- They may not end their turn on a walkway space, but may move through them

The number and type of cards (ie Opportunity, Equipment, Personal Escape Kit) each player has is public information. Note that if your gaming group finds this athematic or unbalanced, we encourage you to house rule it to taste!
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