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Subject: Questions after reading the rules rss

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Larry Schneider
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I wanted to be sure I fully understood all of the rules before playing my first game. But some of the rules are throwing me so any help would be appreciated.

(I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I figured it might be easier if I tried to ask all my questions in a single post instead of creating multiple posts.)

1. In the sections for Aedilis and Mercator, the rules say, "If there is no area card on the given slot, this action cannot be carried out." A similar rule applies to the Propraetor action as well.

However, on page 6, the rules say that after gaining a card via the Aedilis, Mercator, or Propraetor actions, you "refill the now-empty card slot with a new area card from the draw deck and place the new card in the starting position."

So when, if ever, will the rule about no area card in the given slot apply?

2. Also, in that same section on page 6, the rules state, "If the Area Card is in the upper position or if the card slot is empty, and you won’t be able to pay the 2 Coins at the end of the Action (even after possibly gaining money during the Action), then you cannot carry out this Action." I'm just curious as to how this actually works in practice. Might there be occasions when you perform the action, fully expecting that you'll have the necessary 2 coins when the time comes, and only realize later that you don't have the money to pay for the card? Do you then have to roll back the entire turn somehow?

3. Regarding Area Influence: "If your cube lands on an already occupied space, then you must move your cube down to the next available empty space." So am I correct in understanding that:

a. The amount of Influence you can gain in an Area is directly related to the players who gained Influence in that Area before you and how much Influence they have gained so far in the game?

b. As a result, won't it be important to try and be the first player to gain influence in an area so you can control when and how much influence other players can gain after you?

c. Might there be times when you don't want to gain additional influence in an area in order to prevent other players from moving up the track (in other words, you might try and gain additional Influence later in the game and hope that your opponents won't have the time to move up the track after you)?

4. Can't the Building and War Cards you use to gain Influence via the Propraetor action be moved to the right side of the board instead of rotating them 90 degrees? Seems to me that that might be simpler, take up less space, and free up space on the left side of your player board.

5. When you use a pair of Area Card fragments to collect a resource, can't those cards also be moved to the right side of your player board to make it easier to keep track of when and if you've gained resources for those cards?

6. The example under Training Workers says, "The blue player sends her last available worker (of value 1) to train. She chooses the ±2 slot, so she must pay 1 denarius to the bank. According to the rules, she must wait at least a round to use it. In that round, the value of the trained worker may be 1, 2, or 3."

Shouldn't the word "round" in this example actually say "turn?"

7. The rules say that if you pass and still have unused Workers, you get to keep them for the next round. Wouldn't you want to at least spend a turn and place one such worker in the 0-cost Training slot on your Player Board, if possible? That way, you get to score 1 point for the Worker in addition to keeping him for the next round. In fact, there might be times when you'd want to spend a coin and place another worker in the 2nd training slot to score an additional point, no?

8. What's the point of the Shadow Players in the 2-player variant? Since they're being placed in the 3, 4, and 5-player action slots, it seems to me that they could only possibly affect what Workers you collect during the Refill Phase. Is this correct?

9. So I'm not planning to play the Advanced Game any time soon. But the Advanced Game rules were really confusing, and there were no examples provided.

For instance, why are you flipping over a card on the 3 decks after setup?

What does the following grammatically incorrect sentence in the advanced rules mean: "Note: In the advanced mode you have to pay 3 denarius for the area cards. For this and for the advanced actions can find extra symbols under all actions."

["In the Advanced Game, before or after you have finished with your basic action, you can use up one or more cards from the left side of your Player Board. For each action, the used cards give some sort of bonus."]

Can someone provide examples of how this would work?

["These bonuses are shown under the text at each of the action locations."]

Where exactly?

["All cards contain an icon in the top left corner (an amphora , a sword , a lion ). When carrying out an action, you may only use cards with a single icon type, but you may use an unlimited number of these."]

Huh?


Needless to say, I'm holding off on reading the Expansion rules until I better understand all of the above!! :)

 
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Dany Houart
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Hello,


So, for the 1st question, the rules applies when the draw deck is empty. You can't refill the slot, but the turn continues. So, if you choose the propreator action, and the slot is empty, you can't select resources, but you can increase influence on the zone, and you have to pay 2 denarus at the end of the action. For the aedilis, since you don't have any resources to collect if the slot is empty, the action can't be carried out. For the mercator, I think that you can sell resources, but you can't buy any of them, since the card slot is empty....

2nd question : with this rule, you can collect resources that you're a maximum, and then gain money (or resources), and then, you have at least the 2 denarus that you have to pay.

4th question: well, the right side of the board is used with the advanced rules. You put cards on the right side when you use the symbols on the upper left corner (use of the extra-actions of the locations). And rotating cards is used to gain influence on a area. Ot's two different things. You can put cards on the right side, and on a next turn, rotate these cards to gain influence. So, that cards can be used for two differents things.

5th question: you can with the base rules, but with the advanced rules, you might lose the opportunity of using the symbols on the upper left corner.

6th question: I think so...
7th question: the unused worker on the training section goes back with the others workers you might have unused. They don't stay on the training section.
8th: yes.

 
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Damon Baume
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schnel wrote:
I wanted to be sure I fully understood all of the rules before playing my first game. But some of the rules are throwing me so any help would be appreciated.

(I apologize in advance for the length of this post but I figured it might be easier if I tried to ask all my questions in a single post instead of creating multiple posts.)

1. In the sections for Aedilis and Mercator, the rules say, "If there is no area card on the given slot, this action cannot be carried out." A similar rule applies to the Propraetor action as well.

However, on page 6, the rules say that after gaining a card via the Aedilis, Mercator, or Propraetor actions, you "refill the now-empty card slot with a new area card from the draw deck and place the new card in the starting position."

So when, if ever, will the rule about no area card in the given slot apply?


This will only come up at the end of a game. When an area space cannot be refilled this triggers the end of the game but the round continues until all workers have been used. Also there is one final round of worker placement of one "imaginary" worker. So you may want to use an empty area space to increase your influence, and thus increase your VPs,in that area even though you can't gain/trade any resources because there is no card.


Quote:
2. Also, in that same section on page 6, the rules state, "If the Area Card is in the upper position or if the card slot is empty, and you won’t be able to pay the 2 Coins at the end of the Action (even after possibly gaining money during the Action), then you cannot carry out this Action." I'm just curious as to how this actually works in practice. Might there be occasions when you perform the action, fully expecting that you'll have the necessary 2 coins when the time comes, and only realize later that you don't have the money to pay for the card? Do you then have to roll back the entire turn somehow?


It just means that if you place a worker at that space and find out at the end of the Action you can't pay for it you would have to take back your worker (and any resources gained/traded) and take another action. There is the case that you may place a worker at an area space that is in the upper position when you have no money thinking that after gaining resources you will gain surplus in a certain resource and thus be able to turn it in denarii, but find out you miscalculated and don't end up with 2 denarius you need to pay for the action. Therefore you would have to take the action back.

Quote:
3. Regarding Area Influence: "If your cube lands on an already occupied space, then you must move your cube down to the next available empty space." So am I correct in understanding that:

a. The amount of Influence you can gain in an Area is directly related to the players who gained Influence in that Area before you and how much Influence they have gained so far in the game?


Not really since by playing multiple Building and/or War cards that have Area Influence you could overtake/jump over another players cube on an Infuence track.

Quote:
b. As a result, won't it be important to try and be the first player to gain influence in an area so you can control when and how much influence other players can gain after you?


No - see answer above.

Quote:
c. Might there be times when you don't want to gain additional influence in an area in order to prevent other players from moving up the track (in other words, you might try and gain additional Influence later in the game and hope that your opponents won't have the time to move up the track after you)?


I don't think so, as once again they could just jump over you. For example, your cube is on the "2" space and another player is on the "1" space. This player could play two War/Building cards with area a total of 2 area influence and end up on the "3" space.

Quote:
4. Can't the Building and War Cards you use to gain Influence via the Propraetor action be moved to the right side of the board instead of rotating them 90 degrees? Seems to me that that might be simpler, take up less space, and free up space on the left side of your player board.


They could but this would confuse things when playing the advanced rules so it's best to just leave them on the left and rotate.

Quote:
5. When you use a pair of Area Card fragments to collect a resource, can't those cards also be moved to the right side of your player board to make it easier to keep track of when and if you've gained resources for those cards?


Same answer as the previous question.

Quote:
6. The example under Training Workers says, "The blue player sends her last available worker (of value 1) to train. She chooses the ±2 slot, so she must pay 1 denarius to the bank. According to the rules, she must wait at least a round to use it. In that round, the value of the trained worker may be 1, 2, or 3."

Shouldn't the word "round" in this example actually say "turn?"


That's a good question. I'm unclear on this one too.

Quote:
7. The rules say that if you pass and still have unused Workers, you get to keep them for the next round. Wouldn't you want to at least spend a turn and place one such worker in the 0-cost Training slot on your Player Board, if possible? That way, you get to score 1 point for the Worker in addition to keeping him for the next round. In fact, there might be times when you'd want to spend a coin and place another worker in the 2nd training slot to score an additional point, no?


Quite possibly, but I think it may depend on how long the worker is locked into training and therefore unusable - a turn or round.

Quote:
8. What's the point of the Shadow Players in the 2-player variant? Since they're being placed in the 3, 4, and 5-player action slots, it seems to me that they could only possibly affect what Workers you collect during the Refill Phase. Is this correct?


Correct. They only affect the worker drafting.

Quote:
9. So I'm not planning to play the Advanced Game any time soon. But the Advanced Game rules were really confusing, and there were no examples provided.


Bacically you are using cards with the same icon to "pay" for an additional action at the action space you have just used. This where you are moving cards from the left side of you board to the right side to indicate that these cards have been used to pay for these extra actions.

Quote:
For instance, why are you flipping over a card on the 3 decks after setup?


This just allows you see what cards are coming up next to refill used spaces.

Quote:
What does the following grammatically incorrect sentence in the advanced rules mean: "Note: In the advanced mode you have to pay 3 denarius for the area cards. For this and for the advanced actions can find extra symbols under all actions."

["In the Advanced Game, before or after you have finished with your basic action, you can use up one or more cards from the left side of your Player Board. For each action, the used cards give some sort of bonus."]

Can someone provide examples of how this would work?


What it is saying is that when playing the Advanced Game and an area card is in the upper position (or empty) you pay 3 denarius instead of 2 when you take an action there. This increase in cost and the use of cards to pay for bonus actions is shown by the extra symbols under each action area.

Quote:
["These bonuses are shown under the text at each of the action locations."]

Where exactly?


Directly under each action's name

Quote:
["All cards contain an icon in the top left corner (an amphora , a sword , a lion ). When carrying out an action, you may only use cards with a single icon type, but you may use an unlimited number of these."]

Huh?


Say you have collected three building cards all with the amphora symbol in the top left hand corner. You decide to place your "5" worker at the Quaestor. This basic action gives you 10 denarius. Then you decide to use the three building cards with amphora symbol to "pay" for the bonus action giving you 2 denarius for each card you use (6 denarius in total for the three cards. These cards which you used are moved from the left side of your player board to the right side to indicate they have been used to pay for a bonus action and thus can't be used again to pay for bonus actions.



Quote:
Needless to say, I'm holding off on reading the Expansion rules until I better understand all of the above!!




 
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Larry Schneider
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sapper_D wrote:
This will only come up at the end of a game. When an area space cannot be refilled this triggers the end of the game but the round continues until all workers have been used. Also there is one final round of worker placement of one "imaginary" worker. So you may want to use an empty area space to increase your influence, and thus increase your VPs,in that area even though you can't gain/trade any resources because there is no card.

I had a feeling it had to to do with the end of the game but the rules didn't explicitly say that so I thought maybe there was another situation where this might apply. Thanks for clarifying.

Quote:
It just means that if you place a worker at that space and find out at the end of the Action you can't pay for it you would have to take back your worker (and any resources gained/traded) and take another action. There is the case that you may place a worker at an area space that is in the upper position when you have no money thinking that after gaining resources you will gain surplus in a certain resource and thus be able to turn it in denarii, but find out you miscalculated and don't end up with 2 denarius you need to pay for the action. Therefore you would have to take the action back.

I understand. My question was only about how this works in practice. You might take your turn figuring you'll have the necessary 2 coins when the time comes but then you realize later you miscalculated. As a result, rolling back the turn could be problematic. For example, did I start with 1 Livestock or 2? Did I take coins or move my surplus when I exceeded 3 wheat? Etc... Maybe this problem is not really a problem and doesn't happen that often.

Quote:
Not really since by playing multiple Building and/or War cards that have Area Influence you could overtake/jump over another players cube on an Infuence track.

Okay, I totally misunderstood what the rules were saying. I thought you could never jump over another player on the track. Not true. The rules were only saying that you can't have 2 markers on the same space so you should avoid wasting cards if they will land your marker on someone else's marker and not let you move up any further on the track.

Quote:
Re: Advanced Rules: For instance, why are you flipping over a card on the 3 decks after setup?
This just allows you see what cards are coming up next to refill used spaces.

Oh. So this could just as easily have been included with the base rules. It has nothing to do with playing cards with icons...

Quote:
What it is saying is that when playing the Advanced Game and an area card is in the upper position (or empty) you pay 3 denarius instead of 2 when you take an action there. This increase in cost and the use of cards to pay for bonus actions is shown by the extra symbols under each action area.

Ah, I see it now. The icons in the gray sections on the main board immediately under each action location's name

Quote:
Say you have collected three building cards all with the amphora symbol in the top left hand corner. You decide to place your "5" worker at the Quaestor. This basic action gives you 10 denarius. Then you decide to use the three building cards with amphora symbol to "pay" for the bonus action giving you 2 denarius for each card you use (6 denarius in total for the three cards. These cards which you used are moved from the left side of your player board to the right side to indicate they have been used to pay for a bonus action and thus can't be used again to pay for bonus actions.

Okay, I'm getting it now. So the advanced rules are simply letting you treat cards with identical icons as if they were extra workers so you can perform additional actions.

More to the point, does moving cards to the right side of your player board in this way prevent you from later using these same cards to move up on an area influence track?

In other words, can you rotate the cards on the right side of your player board 90 degrees in the same way you rotate cards on the left side of your player board? Or does using cards to perform additional actions under the advanced rules prevent you from using those same cards again later under the base game rules? Or can you do both and use the same cards twice to accomplish different things?

Also, under the advanced rules, could I use one group of cards with Lions to perform some additional actions and then use another group of cards, say, with Swords to perform other additional actions? Or do the advanced rules limit you in only using cards with one type of icon per turn?

I presume that under the Advanced Rules, you must use a minimum of 2 cards to perform an additional action, right? Or can you even use 1 card to perform an additional action?

I gather that you can't perform a worker action in one action location, and then use cards to perform additional actions associated with another action location, right? You must stick to 1 action location when performing both a base game action and additional advanced rules actions?
 
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Damon Baume
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schnel wrote:
Maybe this problem is not really a problem and doesn't happen that often.


I think that this is the case. As you say there is room for error remembering what resources you started with, etc, if you have to roll back your turn. I really don't think it's going to happen that often,if at all, as it should be pretty easy to work out if you'll have 2 denarius at the end of the Action before you take the action.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Advanced Rules: For instance, why are you flipping over a card on the 3 decks after setup?

This just allows you see what cards are coming up next to refill used spaces.


Oh. So this could just as easily have been included with the base rules. It has nothing to do with playing cards with icons...


I made an error here, the cards are flipped over because you can buy them when using the bonus action at the Aedificator, Legatus and Senatus action spaces.

Quote:
More to the point, does moving cards to the right side of your player board in this way prevent you from later using these same cards to move up on an area influence track?


No. They are two independent uses of the card.

Quote:
In other words, can you rotate the cards on the right side of your player board 90 degrees in the same way you rotate cards on the left side of your player board? Or does using cards to perform additional actions under the advanced rules prevent you from using those same cards again later under the base game rules? Or can you do both and use the same cards twice to accomplish different things?


Rotating the card indicates it's been used for area influence and moving it to the right side of your player board indicates it's been used to pay for bonus actions. So as you say you "can you do both and use the same cards twice to accomplish different things".

Quote:
Also, under the advanced rules, could I use one group of cards with Lions to perform some additional actions and then use another group of cards, say, with Swords to perform other additional actions? Or do the advanced rules limit you in only using cards with one type of icon per turn?


Each time you take an action you have the opportunity to use the bonus action but you must use cards with the same symbol. For example, in one turn you take the Quaestor action then use three cards with amphora symbols to gain 6 more denarius. On your next turn you take the Mercator action, then use a card with a sword symbol to gain one surplus.

In other words you can use cards with different symbols in a round but you can only use cards with the same symbol when taking a bonus action.

Quote:
I presume that under the Advanced Rules, you must use a minimum of 2 cards to perform an additional action, right? Or can you even use 1 card to perform an additional action?


You can use any number of cards as long as they have the same symbol.

Quote:
I gather that you can't perform a worker action in one action location, and then use cards to perform additional actions associated with another action location, right? You must stick to 1 action location when performing both a base game action and additional advanced rules actions?


Correct. You take the basic action at an Action space and then you may take the bonus action at that same Action space.
 
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Larry Schneider
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sapper_D wrote:
schnel wrote:
Maybe this problem is not really a problem and doesn't happen that often.


I think that this is the case. As you say there is room for error remembering what resources you started with, etc, if you have to roll back your turn. I really don't think it's going to happen that often,if at all, as it should be pretty easy to work out if you'll have 2 denarius at the end of the Action before you take the action.


Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Re: Advanced Rules: For instance, why are you flipping over a card on the 3 decks after setup?

This just allows you see what cards are coming up next to refill used spaces.


Oh. So this could just as easily have been included with the base rules. It has nothing to do with playing cards with icons...


I made an error here, the cards are flipped over because you can buy them when using the bonus action at the Aedificator, Legatus and Senatus action spaces.

Quote:
More to the point, does moving cards to the right side of your player board in this way prevent you from later using these same cards to move up on an area influence track?


No. They are two independent uses of the card.

Quote:
In other words, can you rotate the cards on the right side of your player board 90 degrees in the same way you rotate cards on the left side of your player board? Or does using cards to perform additional actions under the advanced rules prevent you from using those same cards again later under the base game rules? Or can you do both and use the same cards twice to accomplish different things?


Rotating the card indicates it's been used for area influence and moving it to the right side of your player board indicates it's been used to pay for bonus actions. So as you say you "can you do both and use the same cards twice to accomplish different things".

Quote:
Also, under the advanced rules, could I use one group of cards with Lions to perform some additional actions and then use another group of cards, say, with Swords to perform other additional actions? Or do the advanced rules limit you in only using cards with one type of icon per turn?


Each time you take an action you have the opportunity to use the bonus action but you must use cards with the same symbol. For example, in one turn you take the Quaestor action then use three cards with amphora symbols to gain 6 more denarius. On your next turn you take the Mercator action, then use a card with a sword symbol to gain one surplus.

In other words you can use cards with different symbols in a round but you can only use cards with the same symbol when taking a bonus action.

Quote:
I presume that under the Advanced Rules, you must use a minimum of 2 cards to perform an additional action, right? Or can you even use 1 card to perform an additional action?


You can use any number of cards as long as they have the same symbol.

Quote:
I gather that you can't perform a worker action in one action location, and then use cards to perform additional actions associated with another action location, right? You must stick to 1 action location when performing both a base game action and additional advanced rules actions?


Correct. You take the basic action at an Action space and then you may take the bonus action at that same Action space.


I can't thank you enough for explaining all of this so well! MUCH Appreciation!!
 
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Damon Baume
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My pleasure! thumbsup

Though the timing of the worker training still needs to be clarified.
 
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Larry Schneider
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sapper_D wrote:
My pleasure! :thumbsup:

Though the timing of the worker training still needs to be clarified.


Right. I'll repost that in a shorter message along with a couple modifier-related questions I have.
 
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