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Subject: Help a fence-sitter decide rss

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Dave K
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These days I'm mostly into things on the euro side of the gaming landscape, but I have a lot of fond memories of dungeon delving (and of Warhammer Quest in particular). I waffled on the original SoB a lot and eventually passed on it.

A few questions if experienced players with this system might be able to help:

1) Is the roll-to-move aspect optional? Or house-ruleable without totally ruining the game? I don't mind dice rolls to determine the outcome of actions in this sort of game, but I'm still very leery of roll-to-move.

2) Are the "between adventures" scenarios interesting? Are they fleshed out much? I remember that being one of the aspects of WQ that I really thought was cool that rarely seems to show up anywhere else.

3) Is the game 100% fully cooperative? I'm definitely not interested in another one-vs-many type game.

4) Is it easy for people to jump in and out, or do you need the same group every time you play?

5) How is the scenario variety? Is it mostly renamed versions of the same thing, or are there more detailed scenarios with varied objectives and requirements?

I realize nobody has played Forbidden Fortress yet (or at least, is not likely to have done so ), but I'd appreciate input on these from how the original went.

Thanks everyone!
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Sakari Laiho
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1. optional
2. i'v heard townexpansion for sob add lot of content
3. It is. Even though some mutations are lethal to your friends
4. maybe easy, because you could use 5 lvl characters with 1 lvl.
5. variety... depends what you think what is variety.

well sob player here.
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Philip Jelley
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Happymrdave wrote:
These days I'm mostly into things on the euro side of the gaming landscape, but I have a lot of fond memories of dungeon delving (and of Warhammer Quest in particular). I waffled on the original SoB a lot and eventually passed on it.

A few questions if experienced players with this system might be able to help:

1) Is the roll-to-move aspect optional? Or house-ruleable without totally ruining the game? I don't mind dice rolls to determine the outcome of actions in this sort of game, but I'm still very leery of roll-to-move.

2) Are the "between adventures" scenarios interesting? Are they fleshed out much? I remember that being one of the aspects of WQ that I really thought was cool that rarely seems to show up anywhere else.

3) Is the game 100% fully cooperative? I'm definitely not interested in another one-vs-many type game.

4) Is it easy for people to jump in and out, or do you need the same group every time you play?

5) How is the scenario variety? Is it mostly renamed versions of the same thing, or are there more detailed scenarios with varied objectives and requirements?

I realize nobody has played Forbidden Fortress yet (or at least, is not likely to have done so ;) ), but I'd appreciate input on these from how the original went.

Thanks everyone!


1) Movement is 1d6 or 4

2) Excessve amount of between adventure action, including dark Stone corruption tests, travel events, separate buildings for different activities and goodies, and town events and adventures.

3) Yes, the heroes form a posse to go on adventures and fight monsters, some even go so far as to share loot, money, and experiance rather than track them separately for each hero.

4) People can drop in and out, but new players starting with a new hero will be at level one, which will be difficult if in a level five posse. You could keep a selection of used heros of the right level for a newbie to use.

5) There are 12 scenarios in SOBFF, but others should be easy to adapt from SOB, or to tweak with a different world or set of monsters. Some SOB expansions come with 1-2 adventures, such as Serpentmen and Masters of the Void, which can be easily adapted to SOBFF.
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Steve de Vries
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1. Optional. One of the advanced rule was a fixed move. However, a diceroll is still worth doing because you have a chance to recover a grit(grit is used to activate abilities and stuff).

2. Yes. The town phase can last a long while with a lot of cool stuff happening. Also to, traveling to town is cool(and at times dangerous) as well. The social aspect with your gaming group is very neat, different people have different goals in town. People saving up for stuff, or doing minigames in town.

3. Very much so!

4. Very easy. You get to keep your character. And you can always houserule some stuff(like extra XP) if someone couldn't make it for a few gaming sessions.

5. Variety is great with this game, Especially if you own a bunch of expansions! Cool thing is, this game really encourages you to come up with your own stories and such.
I actually cooked up a mini campaign involving one of the expansion packs.
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Phil Embree
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1) Roll to move is optional, and can be replaced with a generic move 4 spaces per turn, but you still have to roll to see if you recover grit. Honestly, the tiles are so small that the roll to move isn't an issue. You can usually get to where you want to go.

2)The base set town is ok, but the twon expansion is tons of fun, with new missions...etc. Easily a first buy for an expansion.

3)100% completely fully cooperative.

4)It's easy to switch players or leave someone out. The game scales fairly well based on posse size.

5)The scenarios do end up feeling similar. It's more about the loot and artifacts. Gaining money to buy more things in town...etc. Missions usually consist of finding a certain number of clues and then fighting a boss.

I love the game and highly recommend it. It doesn't have a ton of strategy, and you pretty much roll for everything, but that's more my style of game anyway.
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Ross Allen
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They have mentioned before that WQ was a massive influence for SoB, so its very likely you will like the town aspect of SoB
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Daniel Davis - Personal
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Happymrdave wrote:


2) Are the "between adventures" scenarios interesting? Are they fleshed out much? I remember that being one of the aspects of WQ that I really thought was cool that rarely seems to show up anywhere else.


Yes, if you use the Frontier Town expansion and the Hexcrawl fan-made campaign system.

Honestly, SoB should NOT be played without both of these. These two expansions together make SoB a good game.
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Jee Fu
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Happymrdave wrote:
1) Is the roll-to-move aspect optional? Or house-ruleable without totally ruining the game? I don't mind dice rolls to determine the outcome of actions in this sort of game, but I'm still very leery of roll-to-move.

You can pick. The default is roll-to-move, but under optional rules there is a section that says you can replace that with a static 4 spaces per Hero, base. This makes the game slightly easier because the average roll on a D6 is 3.5, and also you can predict the future better. I prefer roll-to-move; it adds an interesting element of unknown that's fun to plan around. You can get items and abilities with +Move or that lets you teleport or that lets you move through other models; the more certain you are of the situation, the less important these things become so I feel like fixed move takes away just a little bit of game-play. But, ya know, maybe that's the kind of game-play you can live without.


Happymrdave wrote:
2) Are the "between adventures" scenarios interesting? Are they fleshed out much? I remember that being one of the aspects of WQ that I really thought was cool that rarely seems to show up anywhere else.

Um, yes. Especially if you get the Frontier Town Expansion. Travel/Town is like a whole other, different game that you play with the same Hero. Granted, it's more of an abstraction than the Adventures - you don't take individual turns or tactically plan positioning; it's more zoomed out. Everyone goes at the same time - you each decide where your Hero is going at the beginning of each day in Town, and then you make lots of chart rolls (some dependent on where you went and some not) that dictate what happens to you and the town in general. Then you figure out how to deal with it. During that, you can buy goods/services from the location you visited. For example, if you go to the General Store you can stock up on Ammo, buy new guns, get some bandages, get a Hat or Coat, etc. If you instead go to the Blacksmith, he can forge the Dark Stone you find into upgrades for your socketed gear (like Diablo-style) or sell you some armor or even a Horse. The Core Sets come with 6 Buildings for a preset Town and a rudimentary Travel chart.

The Frontier Town Expansion explodes that into 12 buildings that can randomly generate Towns of 4, 6, or 8 buildings (the bigger the Town, the more Travel events you have to deal with to get there). It also adds specialty towns you can find - like a Mining Town or a River Town. Those come into play with special events/things you can do in addition to everything else. The FTE also gives you a new Enemy type (Bandits) and a Town Adventure Board that make it so you CAN do normal Adventures in a Town-type setting instead of the Mines (they have rules for jumping out windows, falling off Roofs, taking cover in doorways, etc) and the expo comes with 6 such missions. It also expands Travel, and adds a whole other deck of Town Events that get added to everything above.

The FTE is ... basically required, IMO.


Happymrdave wrote:
3) Is the game 100% fully cooperative? I'm definitely not interested in another one-vs-many type game.

Fully Co-op. Snoogins.


Happymrdave wrote:
4) Is it easy for people to jump in and out, or do you need the same group every time you play?

Simple Answer: yes, you can jump in and out (again, like Diablo).
Complex Answer: technically, there aren't official rules for how to govern this; its clear the that rules assume that you're playing with the same posse every game, but it doesn't explicitly say you must. It's not difficult to make it work, but you might need to come up with some baseline rule-extrapolations to keep things consistent. For instance, we allow different Heroes to jump in/out between Adventures and Travel, between Travel and Town, and between Town and Adventures (there is no Travel step after Town, only before). This keeps the individual "macro" phases of the game discrete, and makes it so we don't have to mess with the actual rules of play. If the Hero you want to bring in isn't on the same phase as the rest of the Posse, they can't jump in. For example, if Jimmy Deadeye is on the Travel Phase (cause maybe he finished his last mission late at night and didn't get a chance to Travel before the player needed to go to bed) and the rest of the Posse is on Town, he either needs to do the Travel step by himself to catch-up to the rest before hand OR he'll have to wait until they're done with an entire other Adventure (and would therefore be about to start Traveling) before he can jump in again. Or his player can just bring in a different Hero who already is on the Town Phase (or one who is finished with Travel/Town and can simply wait for the rest of the Posse to catch up to him and begin the next Adventure with them).

You will also need to come up with a system for what to do about Item cards when you keep characters from game to game. Flying Frog told me they like to pull them back out of the decks and put them in front of the Heroes who are carrying them, so that's the system I use. Many others (like Adria, who regularly posts on this Forum) prefer to put the cards back in the decks after drawing them and simply manage their gear on a Character Sheet. There are pros/cons to both methods. I prefer to keep the cards because I like the tactile nature of card driven production value, and I also like that certain items are rare and can't be eventually possessed by everyone. Conversely, I would presume to say that Adria - and players like her - likes the idea that everyone still has a shot at every item regardless of who currently possesses what, and also that setup/takedown takes much less time if you don't have to pull things from a dozen different decks. Until FFP makes an official rule about it, its up to you.


Happymrdave wrote:
5) How is the scenario variety? Is it mostly renamed versions of the same thing, or are there more detailed scenarios with varied objectives and requirements?

The Core Set scenarios are all pretty similar - find X clues, fight big dude at the end. The expansions drift from this a little bit - some of them have you chasing a band of outlaws or trying to find the exit after becoming lost in the mines. The replayability of Brimstone is in definitely in the details (map generation, loot, different character builds, Encounters, etc) rather than in the macro. The overarching goals are usually the same (find something important, kill everything, get loot, don't die), but the way in which that is accomplished varies wildly from game to game due to the overwhelming amount of random stuff that can happen.


Happymrdave wrote:
I realize nobody has played Forbidden Fortress yet (or at least, is not likely to have done so ), but I'd appreciate input on these from how the original went.

FoFo looks to be mechanically the same (the rules might contain some concrete answers to things we've only been assuming until now). I'm looking forward to the sheer amount of options it will add to the other sets.

Good luck on your research! Shadows of Brimstone is the closest thing you can get to a tabletop RPG without having an actual GM. And it's randomly generated narratives are super fun to watch play out, and surprisingly cohesive.

- Jee
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Dean L
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Frontier Town isn't really going to gel thematically with FoFo though is it? And we've yet to see sight of something similar for that set. I'm hoping the basics (different size towns, randomised buildings) are rolled into the basics and they can just do a small town enhancements set with extra events and, town scenarios and speciality towns this time.
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Dave K
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Thanks everyone for the information. It sounds like Frontier Town is a huge upgrade, but as Dean said:

Deano2099 wrote:
Frontier Town isn't really going to gel thematically with FoFo though is it? And we've yet to see sight of something similar for that set. I'm hoping the basics (different size towns, randomised buildings) are rolled into the basics and they can just do a small town enhancements set with extra events and, town scenarios and speciality towns this time.


I'm guessing it won't fit into the Japanese setting without a few hitches, but if it adds that much to the game, I might look into it anyways. I'll keep an eye out for stretch goals / expansions that do have this though.

Was Frontier Town part of the stuff in the original KS? Or was it brought up separately later?
 
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Adam Canning
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Happymrdave wrote:

Was Frontier Town part of the stuff in the original KS? Or was it brought up separately later?


Original KS. it was the 0.5 million stretch goal.
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Felipe Bulhões
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I am on the fence here too. $300 dollars is too much for a game, Sumo, on the other hand, simply doesn't worth it. I also prefer the western theme.

The game seems cool tough and I am not only a gamer, but a collector too, so I have no doubts that the shogun pledge on the long run is a good deal.

A good thing about this game is that it has a good home brew community too. As I will definitely pledge for Rising Sun, I expect to have drowned in wacky japan-themed miniatures in 2018. So it makes sense to invest in this theme right now.

Decisions, decisions...
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Eric Harman
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Coiote wrote:
I am on the fence here too. $300 dollars is too much for a game, Sumo, on the other hand, simply doesn't worth it. I also prefer the western theme.

The game seems cool tough and I am not only a gamer, but a collector too, so I have no doubts that the shogun pledge on the long run is a good deal.

A good thing about this game is that it has a good home brew community too. As I will definitely pledge for Rising Sun, I expect to have drowned in wacky japan-themed miniatures in 2018. So it makes sense to invest in this theme right now.

Decisions, decisions...


I play sob more often than any other game, and I bought the original all at retail. So for me, a Shogun pledge is a no-brainer. Even if it freezes exactly where it is, it's saved me a nice chunk of money.
I realize others are more ambivalent, or downright angry about this ks. So YMMV.
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Coiote wrote:
The game seems cool tough and I am not only a gamer, but a collector too, so I have no doubts that the shogun pledge on the long run is a good deal.


Bend over and pledge. SoB has had the most mini-expansions (and resins) I've seen for a boardgame, and you pretty much have to buy them from their website (with the occasional sale) at full price plus shipping. For collectors, the Shogun is a no-brainer. Sell brain if necessary.
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Joanna G
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Happymrdave wrote:
1) Is the roll-to-move aspect optional? Or house-ruleable without totally ruining the game? I don't mind dice rolls to determine the outcome of actions in this sort of game, but I'm still very leery of roll-to-move.

2) Are the "between adventures" scenarios interesting? Are they fleshed out much? I remember that being one of the aspects of WQ that I really thought was cool that rarely seems to show up anywhere else.

3) Is the game 100% fully cooperative? I'm definitely not interested in another one-vs-many type game.

4) Is it easy for people to jump in and out, or do you need the same group every time you play?

5) How is the scenario variety? Is it mostly renamed versions of the same thing, or are there more detailed scenarios with varied objectives and requirements?

1) there is an optional rule for fix movement
2) Frontier Town expansion really fleshes out the between mission Town phase. Town for base game is a chance to sell items, heal, buy new things before setting out on another mission. Frontier town makes town much more interesting and exciting. Did you like WQ? the designers of SoB used to work on WQ and it's heavily influenced by it.
3) 100% cooperative, no other way to play it currently
4) Not sure how others do it, but we have a flexible campaign and people jump in and out often - we usually make up a thematic reason for some of the group not being there or coming late - my friends are mostly RPGers and enjoy the roleplaying aspect of the game.
5) The scenarios in the base games sometimes have similar objectives - usually find X many clues and then the Epic boss shows up - but the newer missions from the enemy packs, Caverns expansion, and Frontier town feel different and have more of a variety of objectives. They are definitely continuing to improve the missions and we have a lot of fun playing (and replaying) them. Replaying a mission never feels the same - it's always different mix of tiles, encounters, and enemies popping up.

If you like Warhammer Quest, co-op's, miniatures, rpg-lite, and dungeon crawlers, it's a no brainer in imho.

And if you happen to live in the L.A.-area I'd be happy to demo the game for you to help you make a decision about it.

It's my favorite game and my most played board game (if you don't count MtG as a board game) and really unique than any other dungeon crawler I've played and I think it's mostly due to feeling like a rpg/dungeon crawler hybrid with an atypical theme.
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