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Gloom of Kilforth: A Fantasy Quest Game» Forums » News

Subject: Gloom of Kilforth, October 2016 rss

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Tristan Hall
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HAPPY HALLOWEEN!!

This time last year we were in full on recovery mode after the madness of the campaign, and now we're still wading neck deep in the world of Kilforth. For this update I've been thinking about ways to beat around the bush, build anticipation and line up tenterhooks for you to stand on, because that's what you do with tenterhooks, right? (It isn't). It could be the lack of sleep, or brain burn from screen stare, but I can't find any significant ways to delay the announcement further. Unless you count this actual paragraph, which is in many ways simply meandering, preambling nonsense. So I'll just come right out and say it:

We've submitted the files to print!!

What does this mean? Well, it means that we're handing off much of the huge burden of responsibility to Panda Manufacturing to now bring the game to life. The art, graphics, cards, wood, tokens and rules are all complete, we're just finalising the box layout. The process goes something like this:

• Panda go over all of our files in detail and check that it meets with their exacting specifications, and we ask each other lots of questions to make sure everything is just perfect.
• Occasionally this game's designer will slow up the process by asking meticulous questions or saying things like 'hang on, the bottom of this text box has to go exactly half way into its overlaid location banner or the whole thing is just not worth doing.' Or not. I already did something like that a thousand times so maybe we can skip this step.
• Panda produce a prototype of the beautiful game and send it to me.
• I'll post a giddy but hopefully useful video of the components to you guys whilst babbling excitedly about how I cannot wait for you to have your own copies, to which you guys will roll your eyes and point out the date of the KS campaign's end, but your eyes will roll right the way back round really quickly because you won't want to miss anything because it will all be so awesome.
• I'll confirm that I'm happy with the game and that Panda should start the press.
• Thousands of copies of the game will be produced and thoroughly quality checked before rolling out of their factory in China.
• They will then be delivered in one shipment to our fulfilment company GamesQuest in the UK.
• From there, your copies will be delivered worldwide and we will all play the waiting game and post about who has received their copies first.
• KS updates will continue until this process is complete and you have your copies in hand.

PnP version!

For those who pledged for it (£50+ pledges) we now have the art-free PnP pdfs of the game's cards. I was going to say they look awful and they'll ruin the game for you but honestly, even without the art they look pretty kewl, all thanks to the combined design might of Tom Howard and Daz Marks. To get your so-white-they'll-blind-you PnP decks just send me a message confirming your pledge amount too and I'll send you the file links this week. Let me know if you have any feedback that isn't art-related!

Address Surveys!

Thanks to everyone who has already responded, which is almost all of you. At the time of writing this we're still awaiting address details from:

• 19 Hero Backers, and
• 5 Legend Backers

I realise you guys are playing it cool though, and indeed you have up until 48 hours before shipping to change your details. After that I'm going to sign your copy and sell it at Travelling Man.

Rules!

We've corrected a couple of typos based on your feedback, and included the final graphics and art, so this is the final print version (it's uploading to BGG too). If you still have feedback, speak now, or forever hold your peace:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B9eLDYUtUrycM19YTUI2QUtLbU...

Sensitivity!!

Some of you may remember there was a bit of brouhaha or brahaha about a scantily clad female warrior image we showed early on. After lots of feedback from many differing viewpoints I made the decision for the game to be inclusive instead of exclusive. Ania and I continued to develop the project in our own way in an uncensored creative environment; and then only after the art was completed we went back through it all with an objective eye and with input from third parties. Whilst there was/is no nudity in the game, we did make a few tweaks to some images that might have caused consternation - we've had no complaints about violence, or about male bodies, but we did cover up a number of female characters.

But you can't please all the people all the time - to some these changes might not be enough, whilst to others these changes are unwarranted. To that end, the cards with the original images might be offered in a future Kickstarter if the demand exists, and some may appear in the art book. Which brings us to...

The Future/Couch of Death!

We've been chatting in various forums about this but what does the future hold for us and for Kilforth?? Most of you know that there is an untapped well of expansion content that we didn't reach during the first campaign, including the Touch of Death expansion set for the game. I'd very much like to Kickstart a campaign to see if we can go forward and produce this content, and see what else we can bring to the table too, like that art book we talked about so much.

However, before we can revisit Kilforth I owe it to the fans of another game I designed - "1066, Tears to Many Mothers" - to Kickstart and try to produce that game too. It's a fast-paced, 2-player, non-collectable card game in the style of Magic the Gathering which recreates the historical Battle of Hastings, with each card based on a real life person or event. 1066 was a runner up in the 2014 Golden Geek Awards and was nominated in the Origins Awards 2015 under the 'Best Historical Board Game' award, and it's not even released yet! With your help we can lift this game off the ground, and with Ania's art we can blast it into outer space...

But before we get ahead of ourselves, I want to earn your trust fully. I've been a backer of creators who start more projects before delivering on their first, and I know what kind of ill will that can generate. They do it to keep their businesses alive, and communicating that can be difficult. But I want you to know I'm fully committed to delivering Gloom of Kilforth to you first and foremost before we embark on our next adventure. I need you to play the game, drool over the art, and tell all of your friends and internets what an amazing product we're capable of producing here it Dorg HQ. So with that in mind, whilst no one is more keen than I to get rolling with this stuff, I'm holding off on Kickstarting anything else until we've wrapped this first project up. Then we can link arms and once again march off into the Gloom, through the veils of history, into the depths of Kreel Manor, beyond the horror of Sublime Dark, or even up to the reaches of outer space together. Deal?

Okay, so what's left to say? Well, I'll keep you posted on developments from here on in, of course. And it just wouldn't be a GoK update without a piccie, so here's a selection of just some of the proofs...



This world is but a canvas to our imagination.

So that's all for now. Resume your episode of Ash Vs Evil Dead or The Walking Dead, and pour yourself another mug of Glook, enjoy your Halloween, and I'll see you in November.

Stay cool, damas y caballeros!


T xx
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Jack
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Before and after of who you covered up? Curious...
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Tristan Hall
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senorcoo wrote:
Before and after of who you covered up? Curious...


Here you go, Jack:

http://ratdorg.blogspot.co.uk/2015/07/fantasy-quest-new-warr...

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Jack
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Thanks, Tristan. Too bad. I thought the original was awesome, but I also understand why you changed it. The art is sick. Love it!
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Tristan Hall
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senorcoo wrote:
Thanks, Tristan. Too bad. I thought the original was awesome, but I also understand why you changed it. The art is sick. Love it!


Thanks Jack, can't wait for it to land now!
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Serious Gamer
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Sensitivity? Bah, call it what it is, censorship! There's no need to be sensitive about the word, especially when that's a perfect description of the situation! Caving into the demands of sensitive people and cropping the card art image that the artist put a lot of work and effort into for the sake of appeasing the sensitive folks is what I would call censorship. As you originally posted on the Kickstarter update page. I strongly oppose censorship of any kind, especially the kind that appeases those who are sensitive about something so petty.

It's especially bothersome when the majority of those who did back the project never even had a say in the polls because they didn't know about it, let alone of the games existence. If you want to appease everyone, throw in the original intended version of those card(s).
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Gunther Schmidl
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"Censorship is the suppression of free speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."

Also it seems to be you throwing a hissy fit here, not anyone "sensitive"...
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Chris
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How many cards had the art changed?
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Neil Edmonds
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Some people just like a bit more realism on their fantasy heroes:

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Serious Gamer
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Autoduelist wrote:
Some people just like a bit more realism on their fantasy heroes


Like the artist?


Quote:
Also it seems to be you throwing a hissy fit here, not anyone "sensitive"...


With all due respect, anyone who makes an argument for something like this can be accused of throwing a hissy fit. Besides, if you think I'm the only one, you haven't seen the update on the kickstarter page. I am here to make the argument on the BGG page.

Besides, it's a legit argument to make when the decision was made based on input at a time when the project hardly even got started. Thus many who put money up for the project didn't have a say, and that's not fair to the backers. If those of us who weren't involved from the beginning knew about the poll from the beginning, this argument would be there, from the beginning, along with the other prude hissy arguments for/against this decision, voting accordingly, and wouldn't be here complaining about it now.
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Jake Staines
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I couldn't give a damn about the game, I only backed this for the tiny pictures of half-naked ladies mostly obscured by text boxes and numbers. I demand my money back!



In all seriousness, I do think that warrior image could do with being moved up a bit so the swords aren't completely obscured, if there's spare space in the artwork to do that with. The framing is good for the image on its own but unfortunately it loses a little with the game parts on the card as well.

gschmidl wrote:
"Censorship is the suppression of free speech, public communication or other information which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, politically incorrect or inconvenient as determined by governments, media outlets, authorities or other groups or institutions."


To be fair, what you've quoted does pretty much fit his complaint. Self-censorship is still censorship - for example the CCA or the Hays Code.

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Claire
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What a shame that the art had to be changed due to some not agreeing with it shake I for one am female and I didn't think there was anything wrong with the picture and wasn't offended by it. The artist is female and if she drew it like that then it should stay that way.
I for one agree that both of the images of the said changed cards should be included and then it is up to the person who plays the game to use the ones that they see fit.
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Joke Meister
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I don't normally spend much time in the comments section on KS so after seeing this thread, I popped over to read them. Wow. Hard to believe that this has become such a big issue.

For what it's worth, the change doesn't bother me and I actually like both. However, from the comments, the big issue appears to be that people don't like the idea that the art was censored rather than disliking the art itself (and yes, I am aware I am generalizing and that there are people who did dislike the revised art).

My own view is that I have no problem with that kind of self censorship. Personally, I don't see censorship as being a bad thing in and of itself. It is something which can very easily be bad (depending on the circumstances) but at the same time, can also be used for good (again, depending on the circumstances). Taking the stance that any level of censorship is bad seems a simplistic stance to take. It would also be hypocritical of me as I self censor all the time - except I normally consider it as thinking before shooting off my mouth... .

In this case, the art is used in service of the game, a commercial product, rather than for the sake of "Art" itself. And in such cases, I fully expect that the norm is that the artist is given a brief as to the type of art that the game producer is looking for.

By way of example, another game I like with fantastic art is Mistfall. Females in that game are fully clothed and look every bit as bad-elf as the males - to the extent that the artist must have been commissioned with a very specific brief to avoid the usual tropes considered as sexist art. Would you say that this was then censorship and therefore bad? What if the initial art from the artist still had elements of sexism such that the game producer asked the artist to change the art. Does it become "bad" censorship at that point?

Ultimately, Tristan has stated that he wants his game to feel inclusive to all genders. If he has received feedback that the original art made a lot of people uncomfortable, changing it to remove that negative element seems reasonable given that the art is ultimately in service of the game, something which he wants as many people to enjoy as possible.
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Milan
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Hi Tristan. Thanks for the fantastic update. I was a late backer, but so glad I heard about this before it got finished, as I would have been gutted to have missed the game.
Can't wait for the game, and keen to be an early pledger for the next one!

D.
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Scott Everts
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Well, for what it's worth, I loved the old art but then I love Frazetta so that probably makes me a bad person these days.

But if it makes a few happy then in the end it's not a big deal.


EDIT- I should also mention that the game Berserk: War of the Realms had some nudity on some cards. There were a few that had a fit about that so they included both censored and original in each box. Thought that was a nice way to deal with the problem.
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Tristan Hall
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@gexthegecko, thanks for your thoughts and as I said over on the KS forums: let’s continue to keep things civil and remember what Bill and Ted said: Be excellent to each other!
@cbrua, only a handful of cards have been changed.
@Autoduelist, Lol!
@Bichatse, thanks for the feedback Jake.
@DragonFly90, thanks for your thoughts.
@Jokemeister, yeah, using the word censorship was not one of my best ideas! Thanks for your lucid and articulate comments.
@dipakSomak, thanks so much for your support, it really is appreciated.
@ScottE, thanks mate, and fwiw I think you’re a great person!
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Martin Moss
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I greatly want to play this game and though I prefer the original art, if the "covered" art makes the game more likely for my wife to play with me, then that's all the better! And DA-AMN if the art still looks superb!
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Claire
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Just wanted to say though Tristan cannot wait to get this game on the table.
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Serious Gamer
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Here's a link to the thread with that poll Tristan mentioned:

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1401744/final-pre-kick-star...

Quite a small number that allowed him to be swayed into altering 1 card art (that I know of, likely more). I wonder, Tristan, if such a small number can sway you to alter the art as intended by the artist, an artist you said you said is fantastic, and an art piece you said you love, I wonder how many it would take to sway you back the other way around, especially when the majority of voters say they would buy the game regardless.




I just recently voted on it, as you can tell in the photo. It was previously 46 who said they wouldn't buy the game because of the card, 75 who said they would. I just made it 76.
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James Boardgame
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Folks, be way of getting drawn into controversy deliberately engineered to push Gloom up the Hotness. It can hardly be a coincidence that Mr Hall has recently registered both Boobs of Kilforth and Prudes of Kilforth as projects with Kickstarter.
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Neil Edmonds
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The censorship poll becomes a bit more interesting if the question was: Do you want original and alt-art versions of the cards printed or would you rather have that extra cardstock used for new game content?

I wonder how the voting would go. devil
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Faelyn
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I will very gladly support a campaign for the original card designs. Count me in!
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Scott Everts
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One problem with a poll like that is it is a subset of a subset of the backers. Only a small percentage of KS backers are regular/active BGG users and generally polls are voted by those most passionate about the subject. So it might be biased towards those most offended while most people don't care either way.

A poll like that might work better using one of the free poll websites and a link directly in an update on KS. Those are fast and don't require an account.
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Nick Hughes
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*sigh* on BGG as well, is this really an issue? A change was made by the creator before the KS started. He requested opinions via poll on BGG and at the time people made their positions known in some 5 odd pages of back and forth discussions.

Ultimately though no one "made" Tristan change the art, he wasn't "forced" by a vocal minority. He as a game designer canvassed potential backers and got responses and made an informed decision to alter a piece of art.

Seriously if this is such a big deal for some people I'll buy their copies because frankly I reckon once this puppy hit's the streets those 250 plus great art pieces (including the one in question) are going to make this game a talking point and this discussions which is nothing more than a storm in a tea cup will be forgotten.





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John
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ScottE wrote:
One problem with a poll like that is it is a subset of a subset of the backers. Only a small percentage of KS backers are regular/active BGG users and generally polls are voted by those most passionate about the subject. So it might be biased towards those most offended while most people don't care either way.

A poll like that might work better using one of the free poll websites and a link directly in an update on KS. Those are fast and don't require an account.


All online polls are biased. They suffer from self selection bias.
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