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Evolution: Climate» Forums » Rules

Subject: A grammar/rule question (symbiosis) rss

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benjamin CLOVIS
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I am bringing Evolution: Climate to my gaming group tomorrow, and I want to make sure I have things right, since I have never played any version of Evolution before. would appreciate an answer from those in the know

"Symbiosis. A species with symbiosis may not be attacked if your species to the right of it has a larger Body Size."
Is that larger body size than the attacking carnivore, or larger body size than your species with the symbiosis trait? For extra credit, what is the grammar rule that is being broken here? (i'm not being a smart alec, I litteraly don't know the answer to either question)blush


 
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Byron S
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Larger than the species with Symbiosis. meeple

I don't know what grammar rule is being broken. yuk
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The Dave
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I would say no grammar rule is being broken. The attacking carnivore is never referred to in the rules statement, so I think the implication is the only other species to which you could compare body sizes would be the original species itself.

If the statement had been

"A species with symbiosis may not be attacked by a carnivore if your species to the right of it has a larger Body Size."

or

A species with symbiosis may not be attacked by another species if your species to the right of it has a larger Body Size."

then there would be ambiguity.
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Will Martin
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It makes sense to me. I guess you could add "than it" to the end, but then you have the question of what "it" applies to.
 
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Ariel
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The trait text is ok, it doesn't need an "attacking by a carnivore" clarification, because only carnivores attack. So, that will be redundant. I'm not a native English speaker and even so I understand the card without any problems .
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Greg Darcy
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Where I struggle with this rule is in reference to the real world.
For example...

Start Species is size 1. (SpS)
Right Species is size 2 (SpR)
Carnivore is Size 4. (SpC)

Now according to normal rules, Either species would be fair game. But with the symbiosis rule, the SpS is completely protected. This makes no sense to me as the carnivore could easily deal with both. Of course, the Carnivore can still successfully attack the SpR. I just fail to see why the SpS would be protected.

It would make more sense if SpR had to be bigger than SpC. Or even if the combined size had to be greater. (SpS + SpR > SpC)

In the real world, to my mind, all other things being equal a carnivore is more likely to go after a smaller animal than a big one. It would simply be easier to capture. So I can even see a case for SpS protecting SpR at sacrifice to itself.
 
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Chris in Kansai
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Don't carnivores have to be bigger than their prey anyway?

Edit - thinking about it, doesn't "larger body size" refer to than the carnivore then?

That would make sense in that the smaller symbiont is protected by its larger host which is too big to be attacked.


Ah, now I get it. Larger body size refers to than the symbiont, so the smaller symbiont can never be attacked, and its host will only be attacked instead if the carnivore is bigger than it.

 
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Gordon Stewart
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GregDarcy wrote:
Where I struggle with this rule is in reference to the real world.
For example...

Start Species is size 1. (SpS)
Right Species is size 2 (SpR)
Carnivore is Size 4. (SpC)

Now according to normal rules, Either species would be fair game. But with the symbiosis rule, the SpS is completely protected. This makes no sense to me as the carnivore could easily deal with both. Of course, the Carnivore can still successfully attack the SpR. I just fail to see why the SpS would be protected.

It would make more sense if SpR had to be bigger than SpC. Or even if the combined size had to be greater. (SpS + SpR > SpC)

In the real world, to my mind, all other things being equal a carnivore is more likely to go after a smaller animal than a big one. It would simply be easier to capture. So I can even see a case for SpS protecting SpR at sacrifice to itself.


Your logic makes sense if the only thing that mattered is "body size".

Definition "symbiosis - the relationship between two different kinds of living things that live together and depend on each other."

The two species are acting like a team, with the small one hiding in shadow of the bigger protector.
This card is reflecting how a smaller creature in this relationship couldn't be attacked
until its bigger buddy is all gone. (while keeping it simple)

Your huge carnivore can try to drive the big buddy extinct, with hopes of getting to the little guy.
 
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David A
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GregDarcy wrote:
In the real world, to my mind, all other things being equal a carnivore is more likely to go after a smaller animal than a big one. It would simply be easier to capture. So I can even see a case for SpS protecting SpR at sacrifice to itself.

Not necessarily. If a Carnivore can sustain itself and/or it's herd/pride/pack/family with one kill rather than several, then it'll go for the bigger.

Remember, in nature, even the most efficient hunters have to be conservative when it comes to energy expenditure because, unlike most of their prey, the meal isn't guaranteed.

Think of a lion pride. Out on the Savannah they've got the option to go after a gazelle, zebra or wildebeest. Often, they go for whichever they can isolate easiest, but the wildebeest is the biggest so the pride would get the best payoff for the effort there. How often do lion prides go after meerkats, dik diks or other small prey?
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Dominic Crapuchettes
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clovisIII wrote:
I am bringing Evolution: Climate to my gaming group tomorrow, and I want to make sure I have things right, since I have never played any version of Evolution before. would appreciate an answer from those in the know

"Symbiosis. A species with symbiosis may not be attacked if your species to the right of it has a larger Body Size."
Is that larger body size than the attacking carnivore, or larger body size than your species with the symbiosis trait? For extra credit, what is the grammar rule that is being broken here? (i'm not being a smart alec, I litteraly don't know the answer to either question)blush


This is not the text on the card! This is the text in the rules. Here is the text on the card:

"This species cannot be attacked if your species to the right has a larger Body Size than this species."


let me know if that answers your question or not. Thanks!
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benjamin CLOVIS
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domcrap wrote:
clovisIII wrote:
I am bringing Evolution: Climate to my gaming group tomorrow, and I want to make sure I have things right, since I have never played any version of Evolution before. would appreciate an answer from those in the know

"Symbiosis. A species with symbiosis may not be attacked if your species to the right of it has a larger Body Size."
Is that larger body size than the attacking carnivore, or larger body size than your species with the symbiosis trait? For extra credit, what is the grammar rule that is being broken here? (i'm not being a smart alec, I litteraly don't know the answer to either question)blush


This is not the text on the card! This is the text in the rules. Here is the text on the card:

"This species cannot be attacked if your species to the right has a larger Body Size than this species."


let me know if that answers your question or not. Thanks!


Hi. Indeed, on my way to game night, I saw that not only was the text on the card crystal clear, but also that the rulebook (whose text is a little less clear) also has a picture of the card with the card text (but to read that, you have to have your reading glasses).
Thank you all for your clarifications. I must admit,that I was so sure that the symbiosis trait would work if the symbiot was bigger than the carnivore, that it had me reading the text wrong.
Intro game with 4 francophone players not having played any version of Evolution before had a few little bumps, but everyone walked away discussing how we would play it again, and what strategies may or may not work.
The replayability in terms of different strategies seemed amazing.
Looking forward to next game.

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Dominic Crapuchettes
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Maybe we should have just kept the same wording for the explaination, but that somehow seems wrong. So we tried to say the same thing in a different way. The problem is that we only expected someone to look at the reference section if they didn't understand the card. Of course this is wrong. Anyone reading the rules is bound to look through the reference section. We'll change that in the next print run...
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