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Subject: Do you think anybody could have seen this coming? rss

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Anybody? A mystic? An astrologist? A 4th grade boy with a calculator?



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2016/11/01/...

What a surprise. Eh?
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The hell you say, sir.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
Anybody? A mystic? An astrologist? A 4th grade boy with a calculator?



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2016/11/01/...

What a surprise. Eh?


I suppose anyone with half a brain that warned all the brain dead people saw it. I wonder which group was which...
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Shawn Fox
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Last year the ACA plans were, on average, about 20% cheaper than the plans that employees offered. This year, based on a 25% increase in the ACA plans, the ACA plans now cost about the same as employer sponsored plans. So what is the problem exactly?
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Shawn Fox
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"In 2016, the average annual premiums for employer-sponsored health insurance are $6,435 for single coverage and $18,142 for family coverage."

http://kff.org/report-section/ehbs-2016-summary-of-findings/
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sfox wrote:
Last year the ACA plans were, on average, about 20% cheaper than the plans that employees offered. This year, based on a 25% increase in the ACA plans, the ACA plans now cost about the same as employer sponsored plans. So what is the problem exactly?


Agreed. The prices discussed seem in line with what I pay through my employer. With the added positive that now people with preexisting conditions might actually be able to get insurance. This is only an issue in right wingers minds because...OBAMA !!
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jonb wrote:
sfox wrote:
Last year the ACA plans were, on average, about 20% cheaper than the plans that employees offered. This year, based on a 25% increase in the ACA plans, the ACA plans now cost about the same as employer sponsored plans. So what is the problem exactly?


Agreed. The prices discussed seem in line with what I pay through my employer. With the added positive that now people with preexisting conditions might actually be able to get insurance. This is only an issue in right wingers minds because...OBAMA !!


YOu all say all of this, buy my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.
Thanks Obama.

And I just saw that Paul Ryan said if they win, they would repeal obamacare.
Yeah, this time we believe you Paul Ryan.... Moron.
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jonb wrote:
sfox wrote:
Last year the ACA plans were, on average, about 20% cheaper than the plans that employees offered. This year, based on a 25% increase in the ACA plans, the ACA plans now cost about the same as employer sponsored plans. So what is the problem exactly?


Agreed. The prices discussed seem in line with what I pay through my employer. With the added positive that now people with preexisting conditions might actually be able to get insurance. This is only an issue in right wingers minds because...OBAMA !!

The real truth behind why the ACA plans used to be cheaper than employer sponsored plans is that during the first years of the ACA the federal government agreed to bail out insurance companies if they lost money. So the natural reaction to that for a market based company is to offer insurance below costs to grab market share and let the government make up the difference. Now that that silly part of the law is gone, we see insurance companies charging the actual fair market rates for insurance. Imagine that...
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TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.

Selective memory, check your facts. The facts are that health insurance costs actually went up slower during the first years after the ACA was passed. Of course, that probably had nothing to do with the ACA and everything to do with higher unemployment, lower inflation in general, lower interest rates, etc.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.

Selective memory, check your facts. The facts are that health insurance costs actually went up slower during the first years after the ACA was passed. Of course, that probably had nothing to do with the ACA and everything to do with higher unemployment, lower inflation in general, lower interest rates, etc.


Or you refuse to accept a first hand account of what actually happened.
It did not go like that FOR me.
 
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.

Selective memory, check your facts. The facts are that health insurance costs actually went up slower during the first years after the ACA was passed. Of course, that probably had nothing to do with the ACA and everything to do with higher unemployment, lower inflation in general, lower interest rates, etc.


Or you refuse to accept a first hand account of what actually happened.
It did not go like that FOR me.

So? You have never heard the term anecdotal evidence? One data point does not a trend make. A bunch of data points from people that live in your area doesn't either, except to maybe show that healthcare costs in your area have gone up faster. The reasons for that most likely have nothing at all to do with the ACA.

Statistically, across the nation as a whole, the ACA has either had little effect at all on costs or maybe has slightly slowed the rate of increase of the cost of insurance. If you let the ACA take credit for the cost deflation caused by the recession you could even claim that the ACA had slowed the increase of healthcare costs (many people make that claim even though I do not).
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.

Selective memory, check your facts. The facts are that health insurance costs actually went up slower during the first years after the ACA was passed. Of course, that probably had nothing to do with the ACA and everything to do with higher unemployment, lower inflation in general, lower interest rates, etc.


Or you refuse to accept a first hand account of what actually happened.
It did not go like that FOR me.

So? You have never heard the term anecdotal evidence? One data point does not a trend make. A bunch of data points from people that live in your area doesn't either, except to maybe show that healthcare costs in your area have gone up faster. The reasons for that most likely have nothing at all to do with the ACA.

Statistically, across the nation as a whole, the ACA has either had little effect at all on costs or maybe has slightly slowed the rate of increase of the cost of insurance. If you let the ACA take credit for the cost deflation caused by the recession you could even claim that the ACA had slowed the increase of healthcare costs (many people make that claim even though I do not).


What is someone supposed to think if they SAY that Obamacare is supposed to have done this, but when say me, looks at what happened to them and they don't see that happening, what am I supposed to think?
Well, tis a bucket of lies.
 
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
sfox wrote:
Last year the ACA plans were, on average, about 20% cheaper than the plans that employees offered. This year, based on a 25% increase in the ACA plans, the ACA plans now cost about the same as employer sponsored plans. So what is the problem exactly?


Agreed. The prices discussed seem in line with what I pay through my employer. With the added positive that now people with preexisting conditions might actually be able to get insurance. This is only an issue in right wingers minds because...OBAMA !!


Oh, if only you could wave it away that easily.



Wave what away exactly ? Tripp post a piece that states that ACA plan prices have increased. I ( and Sfox ) point out that they are in line with employer based plans. You and the Dashi are shocked at this revelation. Why exactly ?
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Drew1365 wrote:
jonb wrote:
The prices discussed seem in line with what I pay through my employer. With the added positive that now people with preexisting conditions might actually be able to get insurance. This is only an issue in right wingers minds because...OBAMA !!

Oh, if only you could wave it away that easily.

Ah, the powerfully compelling "nuh uh" argument again. Drat!
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TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.

Selective memory, check your facts. The facts are that health insurance costs actually went up slower during the first years after the ACA was passed. Of course, that probably had nothing to do with the ACA and everything to do with higher unemployment, lower inflation in general, lower interest rates, etc.


Or you refuse to accept a first hand account of what actually happened.
It did not go like that FOR me.

So? You have never heard the term anecdotal evidence? One data point does not a trend make. A bunch of data points from people that live in your area doesn't either, except to maybe show that healthcare costs in your area have gone up faster. The reasons for that most likely have nothing at all to do with the ACA.

Statistically, across the nation as a whole, the ACA has either had little effect at all on costs or maybe has slightly slowed the rate of increase of the cost of insurance. If you let the ACA take credit for the cost deflation caused by the recession you could even claim that the ACA had slowed the increase of healthcare costs (many people make that claim even though I do not).


What is someone supposed to think if they SAY that Obamacare is supposed to have done this, but when say me, looks at what happened to them and they don't see that happening, what am I supposed to think?
Well, tis a bucket of lies.

Sorry all I can talk about are facts. A graph of the historical healthcare costs across the country are easily available. As far as asking me what you are supposed to think, I'd say you are supposed to rationally examine the facts and then form an opinion rather than believing whatever your friends or the media tell you.
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sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
sfox wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
my healthcare costs have done nothing but go up for crappier coverage.

Where have you been for the last 20 years? During which of those years do you recall health insurance costs not going up? It seems to me your memory is extremely selective if you claim this has only been happening recently.


Before Obamacare, the rates went up much more slowly with VERY LITTLE changes in coverage.
YOu must have a really selective thought process to assume that obamacare is as awesome as you think.

Selective memory, check your facts. The facts are that health insurance costs actually went up slower during the first years after the ACA was passed. Of course, that probably had nothing to do with the ACA and everything to do with higher unemployment, lower inflation in general, lower interest rates, etc.


Or you refuse to accept a first hand account of what actually happened.
It did not go like that FOR me.

So? You have never heard the term anecdotal evidence? One data point does not a trend make. A bunch of data points from people that live in your area doesn't either, except to maybe show that healthcare costs in your area have gone up faster. The reasons for that most likely have nothing at all to do with the ACA.

Statistically, across the nation as a whole, the ACA has either had little effect at all on costs or maybe has slightly slowed the rate of increase of the cost of insurance. If you let the ACA take credit for the cost deflation caused by the recession you could even claim that the ACA had slowed the increase of healthcare costs (many people make that claim even though I do not).


What is someone supposed to think if they SAY that Obamacare is supposed to have done this, but when say me, looks at what happened to them and they don't see that happening, what am I supposed to think?
Well, tis a bucket of lies.

Sorry all I can talk about are facts. A graph of the historical healthcare costs across the country are easily available. As far as asking me what you are supposed to think, I'd say you are supposed to rationally examine the facts and then form an opinion rather than believing whatever your friends or the media tell you.


You are right.
The FACTS I know FIRSTHAND from what has happened with mine are MEANINGLESS.
 
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galad2003 wrote:
Of course they go up now that the penalty for not having insurance is in full effect.

Also, remember how we were promised the coats would go down? Lol

I agree, the Democrats did promise costs were going to go down. They were wrong, but that doesn't mean they lied about what they believed at the time.

Regardless, the ACA has not increased costs of healthcare, that much is easy to see. It has, however, increased the percent of people with healthcare insurance to the highest levels in history. So I'd call that a win. It has also guaranteed that people who get sick can still buy insurance. So another win.

Yes, the ACA hasn't done everything it promised. It has, however, been a positive for all the people who now have insurance who would not be able to get it.
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sfox wrote:
galad2003 wrote:
Of course they go up now that the penalty for not having insurance is in full effect.

Also, remember how we were promised the coats would go down? Lol

I agree, the Democrats did promise costs were going to go down. They were wrong, but that doesn't mean they lied about what they believed at the time.

Regardless, the ACA has not increased costs of healthcare, that much is easy to see. It has, however, increased the percent of people with healthcare insurance to the highest levels in history. So I'd call that a win. It has also guaranteed that people who get sick can still buy insurance. So another win.

Yes, the ACA hasn't done everything it promised. It has, however, been a positive for all the people who now have insurance who would not be able to get it.


I bet you think BUSH LIED but give the dems a pass on lying.
But wait, they KNEW it was going to go up.
 
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TheDashi wrote:
I bet you think BUSH LIED but give the dems a pass on lying.
But wait, they KNEW it was going to go up.

I'm sure Bush did lie, but I'm not sure which lie you are referring to. Obama also has lied, so did Bill Clinton, so did Bush Sr, so did Reagan, so did Carter, so did Ford. I'm pretty sure every president has lied, some more than others of course. All politicians lie, it is a nature of their profession.
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DWTripp wrote:
Anybody? A mystic? An astrologist? A 4th grade boy with a calculator?



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/get-there/wp/2016/11/01/...

What a surprise. Eh?


Dude... you being marginally employed or retired, you should be the last person railing against ACA. Without it, when the lung cancer finally gets you, you won't be able to get insurance and then game over for Trippers.

I don't want that for you, but then again, Repubes weren't always the brightest bunch.

 
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We had a ton of discussion about this back 'in the day'. All that has happened in the ensuing years is that those who are Obama Lickers have just dismissed all his promises and now rely on the questionable and highly malleable *fact* that hey, HC costs always rise and duh, Bush was Evil.

So where are those who back not many years ago were supporting the ACA because Obama promised keeping your doctor and an average $2500 reduction in yearly insurance costs? You people are like the frog that's being boiled slowly. You just don't want to know about why you got in the pot to begin with all you want to do is justify the fact you're in the pot.

Comparing HC increases is prone to lying anyway. We can use, for example, a car as a comparison. Yes, a new car will cost more in 2017 than a similar car might have cost in 2007 or 2010. But that's only a valid comparison if the two cars are identical. If you're paying a 10% premium and getting an even better, more economical and safer car then you're probably not going to resist the increase. But if you're paying the same same 10% increase and getting basically what you already had, or less, 7 or 8 years ago then we're dealing with false equivalences.

I think it's clear that we have seen a dramatic overall increase in health insurance costs with little or no increase -- and often a reduction -- in the quality of the policies or what they offer. At the same time we have witnessed a reduction in employment which throws millions onto the public "roles" and this pads the stats for how many are being insured.

I recommend we burn this thing to the ground and start from scratch.
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DWTripp wrote:
I recommend we burn this thing to the ground and start from scratch.

Single Payer.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
I recommend we burn this thing to the ground and start from scratch.

I've got no problem with that as long as we go with a method that has actually been shown to work. That limits us to single payer of course, but since you insist that the ACA, which is a market based system, can't work, I don't see what other choice we have.
 
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