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Subject: Misc questions (no/minimal spoilers) rss

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Brett Kail
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I read the FAQ post and searched for answers (though not too deeply for fear of spoilers), but I was unable to find answers to a few questions:

1. During the steps of End of Game, what is the player order for tied glory? We can see pros/cons to going first (first choice but other players can react). Our end game scores were Lord 9, Baron 9, Count 11, Duke 11, Prince 10, so we concluded the order should be Baron, Lord, Prince, Duke, Count (basically, "winner" is highest glory lowest title, then reverse the list), but we're not confident and want to get it right for next time.

2. During the Keep Advisors step of End of Game, what happens to the game winner if a non-winning player has no advisors? Rules as written are "The player who won this game may only keep an advisor if its gold value cost is lower than that of any other advisor kept by a player." (i.e., only the set of kept advisors are considered), but the spirit of the rule would seem to imply that the winner gets no advisor.

3. In one of the milestones for game 1 (deliberately vague here to avoid spoilers), entry 318 (I believe...) said to take a sticker from the exploration sticker sheet, but the only matching sticker seems to be from the upgrade sticker sheet. Are we misreading/misunderstanding the entry, or is this a typo?
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David desJardins
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bjkail wrote:
2. During the Keep Advisors step of End of Game, what happens to the game winner if a non-winning player has no advisors?


Is this based on an actual situation or a theoretical concern? I can't really imagine anyone having no advisers.

Quote:
the only matching sticker seems to be from the upgrade sticker sheet.


Yes, the sheet layout might not exactly match the instructions. I imagine they wrote the instructions before they actually laid out the sheets to see what would fit.
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Clinton Rice
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1. The player who scored the most glory in the game becomes prince/princess for the next game. For example, if the prince won the game, and the Lord had the least glory with the other three tying, the prince and lord would keep their titles, and the remaining three would choose from the three remaining titles, in order from lowest title to highest. (Very likely keeping their order as well since most players will choose the lesser title)

2. Unless I am reading it wrong, that shouldnt matter. The winning player does not need to have the lowest valued advisor. He just cant have the highest one. So if one player has an advisor worth 4 gold and another has one worth 2 gold, the prince's advisor has to be worth three or less. Am I interpreting this wrong?
 
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Becq Starforged
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bjkail wrote:
I read the FAQ post and searched for answers (though not too deeply for fear of spoilers), but I was unable to find answers to a few questions:

1. During the steps of End of Game, what is the player order for tied glory? We can see pros/cons to going first (first choice but other players can react). Our end game scores were Lord 9, Baron 9, Count 11, Duke 11, Prince 10, so we concluded the order should be Baron, Lord, Prince, Duke, Count (basically, "winner" is highest glory lowest title, then reverse the list), but we're not confident and want to get it right for next time.

Ties are broken in favor of the lowest ranking player (in this case, before the titles are distributed).
Quote:
p6: In the event of any tie for any reason, unless otherwise stated, the tie is broken in the favor of the player with the less-prominent title.

As a follow up, we rule that this means the lower-ranking player chooses either the lower or higher of the ranks under consideration.

Quote:
2. During the Keep Advisors step of End of Game, what happens to the game winner if a non-winning player has no advisors? Rules as written are "The player who won this game may only keep an advisor if its gold value cost is lower than that of any other advisor kept by a player." (i.e., only the set of kept advisors are considered), but the spirit of the rule would seem to imply that the winner gets no advisor.

While technically possible, it seems very unlikely. In any case, I would rule that a player without an advisor counts as having kept an advisor of value 0.

Quote:
3. In one of the milestones for game 1 (deliberately vague here to avoid spoilers), entry 318 (I believe...) said to take a sticker from the exploration sticker sheet, but the only matching sticker seems to be from the upgrade sticker sheet. Are we misreading/misunderstanding the entry, or is this a typo?

Use the one on the other sheet, per JR.
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Paul Howard
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KoalaXav wrote:
2. Unless I am reading it wrong, that shouldnt matter. The winning player does not need to have the lowest valued advisor. He just cant have the highest one. So if one player has an advisor worth 4 gold and another has one worth 2 gold, the prince's advisor has to be worth three or less. Am I interpreting this wrong?

The one kept has to be worth less than _all_ other advisors kept, so in your example would need to be worth 1 or less
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j n
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KoalaXav wrote:
1. The player who scored the most glory in the game becomes prince/princess for the next game.


Titles are redistributed based on campaign glory, except at the end of the prologue (and technically at the end of game 1, where the game glory and campaign glory will be the same).

(As noted above, in the case of a tie allow the lower-ranked tied player to take their choice of the tied title cards. This will often be the lowest rank.)
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Joseph Cochran
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Ehrine wrote:
KoalaXav wrote:
2. Unless I am reading it wrong, that shouldnt matter. The winning player does not need to have the lowest valued advisor. He just cant have the highest one. So if one player has an advisor worth 4 gold and another has one worth 2 gold, the prince's advisor has to be worth three or less. Am I interpreting this wrong?

The one kept has to be worth less than _all_ other advisors kept, so in your example would need to be worth 1 or less


The wording is: "The player who won this game may only keep an advisor if its gold value cost is lower than that of any other advisor kept by a player." So my reading of it agrees with KoalaXav. I would only interpret it the way you did if the wording were different.
 
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Jamie Specht
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jsciv wrote:
Ehrine wrote:
KoalaXav wrote:
2. Unless I am reading it wrong, that shouldnt matter. The winning player does not need to have the lowest valued advisor. He just cant have the highest one. So if one player has an advisor worth 4 gold and another has one worth 2 gold, the prince's advisor has to be worth three or less. Am I interpreting this wrong?

The one kept has to be worth less than _all_ other advisors kept, so in your example would need to be worth 1 or less


The wording is: "The player who won this game may only keep an advisor if its gold value cost is lower than that of any other advisor kept by a player." So my reading of it agrees with KoalaXav. I would only interpret it the way you did if the wording were different.


There are times that "any" means "every" and it sounded like the case here to me as well.
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j n
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jsciv wrote:

The wording is: "The player who won this game may only keep an advisor if its gold value cost is lower than that of any other advisor kept by a player." So my reading of it agrees with KoalaXav. I would only interpret it the way you did if the wording were different.


If I only had the wording, I would read it the same way both of you do, but it's immediately followed by:

"Example: Green won the game and has advisors with gold costs of two, three, and four. Red and blue keep an advisor worth three and yellow keeps one worth four. Green may only keep the advisor worth two gold since it is lower than all other advisors kept."
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Brett Kail
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Becq wrote:
bjkail wrote:
I read the FAQ post and searched for answers (though not too deeply for fear of spoilers), but I was unable to find answers to a few questions:

1. During the steps of End of Game, what is the player order for tied glory? We can see pros/cons to going first (first choice but other players can react). Our end game scores were Lord 9, Baron 9, Count 11, Duke 11, Prince 10, so we concluded the order should be Baron, Lord, Prince, Duke, Count (basically, "winner" is highest glory lowest title, then reverse the list), but we're not confident and want to get it right for next time.

Ties are broken in favor of the lowest ranking player (in this case, before the titles are distributed).


Sorry, I did not ask my question carefully enough. I mean specifically during "Improve province", "Train Advisors", and "Improve Ships" phases. Those appear to happen before "Assign Titles", and it is unclear to us what "in favor of" means in this context. Is it more favorable to choose a sticker first or to react what another player has chosen? Similarly for improving ships, choosing where enmity is removed, etc.

DaviddesJ wrote:
bjkail wrote:
2. During the Keep Advisors step of End of Game, what happens to the game winner if a non-winning player has no advisors?


Is this based on an actual situation or a theoretical concern? I can't really imagine anyone having no advisers.


It really happened.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
In our five player game, I was only able to acquire one advisor, but pirates killed it at the end of the last turn, so I had no advisors at the end of the game.


Becq wrote:

bjkail wrote:
3. ...

Use the one on the other sheet, per JR.


Thanks!
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Joseph Cochran
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lactamaeon wrote:
jsciv wrote:

The wording is: "The player who won this game may only keep an advisor if its gold value cost is lower than that of any other advisor kept by a player." So my reading of it agrees with KoalaXav. I would only interpret it the way you did if the wording were different.


If I only had the wording, I would read it the same way both of you do, but it's immediately followed by:

"Example: Green won the game and has advisors with gold costs of two, three, and four. Red and blue keep an advisor worth three and yellow keeps one worth four. Green may only keep the advisor worth two gold since it is lower than all other advisors kept."


D'oh. Didn't even read the example since the wording seemed clear enough. Thanks!
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David desJardins
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bjkail wrote:
In our five player game, I was only able to acquire one advisor


You can't be only able to acquire one adviser, unless the game ended in the very first round. You can buy one each turn. I wonder if you're doing something wrong, like not refilling the forum when advisers are hired?
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Becq Starforged
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bjkail wrote:
In our five player game, I was only able to acquire one advisor

You should be replacing advisors bought during EACH player's turn, after hiring:
Quote:
p13: After you have finished hiring, refill the forum
from the top of the advisor deck.


My guess is that this is where your problem came from. There should always be five advisors to choose from, unless the deck has been depleted (which can certainly happen, but generally not before each player has had at least a few opportunities to hire).

Then at the end of each year (during winter), you dismiss the advisors that are left at that point, and replace them from the advisor deck.
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j n
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bjkail wrote:

Sorry, I did not ask my question carefully enough. I mean specifically during "Improve province", "Train Advisors", and "Improve Ships" phases. Those appear to happen before "Assign Titles", and it is unclear to us what "in favor of" means in this context. Is it more favorable to choose a sticker first or to react what another player has chosen? Similarly for improving ships, choosing where enmity is removed, etc.


In general, you can ask the player what they feel like "in favor of" means in a particular case.

DaviddesJ wrote:
bjkail wrote:
In our five player game, I was only able to acquire one advisor


You can't be only able to acquire one adviser, unless the game ended in the very first round. You can buy one each turn. I wonder if you're doing something wrong, like not refilling the forum when advisers are hired?


Unless someone got the Library maybe? And other players paid reputation to be able to use it for the turn?

Doesn't seem likely, though.
 
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Brett Kail
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lactamaeon wrote:
bjkail wrote:

Sorry, I did not ask my question carefully enough. I mean specifically during "Improve province", "Train Advisors", and "Improve Ships" phases. Those appear to happen before "Assign Titles", and it is unclear to us what "in favor of" means in this context. Is it more favorable to choose a sticker first or to react what another player has chosen? Similarly for improving ships, choosing where enmity is removed, etc.


In general, you can ask the player what they feel like "in favor of" means in a particular case.


You mean the player with the lowest title? That seems reasonable. If there's no clarification from the game designers, I guess we'll just go with that. Thanks.

lactamaeon wrote:
DaviddesJ wrote:
bjkail wrote:
In our five player game, I was only able to acquire one advisor


You can't be only able to acquire one adviser, unless the game ended in the very first round. You can buy one each turn. I wonder if you're doing something wrong, like not refilling the forum when advisers are hired?


Unless someone got the Library maybe? And other players paid reputation to be able to use it for the turn?

Doesn't seem likely, though.


I guess I chose poor words again :-). We were refilling advisors every turn, but I chose to only purchase one advisor. The ones available on my turn did not synergize with what I wanted to do, I was saving my gold for treasure cards and buying goods, I was saving my reputation tokens for removing enmity tokens at the end of the game, and I did not anticipate losing the advisor I did buy. The decisions all seemed reasonable at the time (I finished tied for highest glory), but the end result was just unfortunate.

All other players did buy many advisors, so they did keep one. Since the rules state the winner has to keep one lower than all (as clarified by the example and discussed in this thread), it's just unclear to us what happens when a non-winning player has none. It's "rules as written" vs "(perceived) rules as intended", so I was hoping for a clarification from the game designers.
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j n
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Okay, that makes sense.

I would rule that the winner does not get to keep an advisor in that case. The rules intention is pretty clear that the winner is supposed to be at a disadvantage compared to all the other players with regard to kept advisors.
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Thomas Robb
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p. 20

Each player chooses one advisor that player controls and sets it aside to keep the next game.

So, in the unlikely event you do not have any advisors in your council room (none that you control)at the end of the current game, then you would not keep one for the next game - even if you were the winner!



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David desJardins
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thomasrobb wrote:
So, in the unlikely event you do not have any advisors in your council room (none that you control)at the end of the current game, then you would not keep one for the next game - even if you were the winner!


Obviously if you don't have any advisers then you don't keep an adviser. That wasn't the question.
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Becq Starforged
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bjkail wrote:
I guess I chose poor words again :-). We were refilling advisors every turn, but I chose to only purchase one advisor. The ones available on my turn did not synergize with what I wanted to do, I was saving my gold for treasure cards and buying goods, I was saving my reputation tokens for removing enmity tokens at the end of the game, and I did not anticipate losing the advisor I did buy. The decisions all seemed reasonable at the time (I finished tied for highest glory), but the end result was just unfortunate.

All other players did buy many advisors, so they did keep one. Since the rules state the winner has to keep one lower than all (as clarified by the example and discussed in this thread), it's just unclear to us what happens when a non-winning player has none. It's "rules as written" vs "(perceived) rules as intended", so I was hoping for a clarification from the game designers.

While it is a slightly ambiguous case, it seems clear (to me, at least) that the rules are intended to make sure that the winner's kept advisor is limited by the worst advisor of the non-winners. So if a non-winner doesn't get to keep an advisor, that sets the value at 0 for the winner. (IMHO)
 
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