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Subject: Played as an expansion rss

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Today we received Welcome Back To The Dungeon, sleeved the cards and combined the game with Welcome To The Dungeon, as suggested on the back of the rules booklet. This evening we played a game using the combined decks, and I wonder if we missed something ... we weren't too pleased. If one selects from the eight adventurers, setting out the appropriate equipment, too often that equipment is never reflected on the monster cards as there's no overlap of symbols. So, what's supposed to be an expansion feels more like a restriction, and too often unbeatable and unbalanced. I'm hoping we're doing something wrong, and as more people use this as an expansion I'll be very interested in reading what they have to say.
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Brian Bowles
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Interested to see an answer to this. I was wondering this too and have been holding off getting it till I know how well it works with the first one.
 
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Christopher Boat
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I don't think the decks were ever meant to be mixed together, hence the different card backs. It is totally possible to fight through the Welcome Back deck with a hero from the original game though, since the monsters in the new deck are the same. The only new monsters are the unique monsters, but hero equipment never directly interracts with those anyway.

You're right about the symbols not overlapping, but so long as you use the player aids from the 1st game when using one of the original 4 heroes, and switching to Welcome Back player aids when using one of the 4 new heroes, everything should be pretty obvious.
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Matthieu BONIN
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RhodesN7 wrote:
I don't think the decks were ever meant to be mixed together, hence the different card backs. It is totally possible to fight through the Welcome Back deck with a hero from the original game though, since the monsters in the new deck are the same. The only new monsters are the unique monsters, but hero equipment never directly interracts with those anyway.

You're right about the symbols not overlapping, but so long as you use the player aids from the 1st game when using one of the original 4 heroes, and switching to Welcome Back player aids when using one of the 4 new heroes, everything should be pretty obvious.
Exactly this.
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Felix Munoz
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It does feel like a missed opportunity to upsell to existing owners. I will unfortunately pass on this after having been looking forward to it... soblue
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Brian Bowles
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TabletopAdept wrote:
It does feel like a missed opportunity to upsell to existing owners. I will unfortunately pass on this after having been looking forward to it... soblue


Yep, sounds like if you have the first you don't need the second. Oh well, more money toward a bigger game.
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Christopher Boat
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shadowsclassic wrote:
TabletopAdept wrote:
It does feel like a missed opportunity to upsell to existing owners. I will unfortunately pass on this after having been looking forward to it... soblue


Yep, sounds like if you have the first you don't need the second. Oh well, more money toward a bigger game.


I am happy to own both. I paid $10 to have four new heroes and a handful of unique monsters. I've paid more for worse promos. I personally feel like anyone who passes on this simply because they can't mix the decks together is skipping a great addition for all the wrong reasons.
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Alexandre Bitsch
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RhodesN7 wrote:
I am happy to own both. I paid $10 to have four new heroes and a handful of unique monsters. I've paid more for worse promos. I personally feel like anyone who passes on this simply because they can't mix the decks together is skipping a great addition for all the wrong reasons.


I agree.
You have 4 new adventurers with new mechanics, 6 (or 7 with the Essen Promo) special monsters which add diversity to the monsters deck, and a useful lifecounter That's a really great expansion !
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Then why, on the back of the rules booklet, does it say the decks can be combined, and that this is an expansion? "... combining the components of both decks." I'm feeling cheated, and played the fool. Did the designers and publisher test this? I like both games, but expected much more.
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Christopher Boat
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STICKPIN wrote:
Then why, on the back of the rules booklet, does it say the decks can be combined, and that this is an expansion? "... combining the components of both decks." I'm feeling cheated, and played the fool. Did the designers and publisher test this? I like both games, but expected much more.


Actually, the back of the rulebook reads:

"You don't need Welcome to the Dungeon to play; Welcome Back to the Dungeon stands alone. However, you can play both games together by combining the components of both games."

You weren't cheated. You can indeed combine components. Heroes are interchangeable between games.

Personally, I don't undertsand why you would WANT to mix the decks. It would simply make the bluffing/dungeon-building phase less strategic. Also, how yould you suggest balancing a dungeon twice the normal size? The heroes would need twice as much equipment. In the end, it's a pointless endeavor. The way the two games combine right now works just fine.
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David Short
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RhodesN7 wrote:
The way the two games combine right now works just fine.


I don't own the "expansion" yet, so perhaps reading the actual rulebook would clear things up... that being said, I'm confused as to how the two games combine? Please explain.
 
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Alexandre Bitsch
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dshortdesign wrote:
I'm confused as to how the two games combine? Please explain.


Monsters deck :
The 13 normal monsters are the same (goblin, skeleton, orc, vampire...) in WttD or WBttD, but the card back and illustrations are different, so if you want to play with the special monsters from WBttD, you need to use the WBttD's monsters cards.
=> One monsters deck from WttD OR WBttD (they are never shuffle together).

Adventurers :
You can use all 8 adventurers.

Player aids :
Each player can have 3 player aids : the WttD one and the two from WBttD, so you can see which tile interact with which monster.

Hope it helps !
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David Short
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That does help. I'm excited to get this again. Thank you!
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Christopher Boat
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Alflex wrote:
dshortdesign wrote:
I'm confused as to how the two games combine? Please explain.


Monsters deck :
The 13 normal monsters are the same (goblin, skeleton, orc, vampire...) in WttD or WBttD, but the card back and illustrations are different, so if you want to play with the special monsters from WBttD, you need to use the WBttD's monsters cards.
=> One monsters deck from WttD OR WBttD (they are never shuffle together).

Adventurers :
You can use all 8 adventurers.

Player aids :
Each player can have 3 player aids : the WttD one and the two from WBttD, so you can see which tile interact with which monster.

Hope it helps !


I thought I had said all of this, but thanks for putting it all in a nice clear format for everyone to reference.
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Rob Judy
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I haven't played it yet, but how about this idea:

2 separate monster decks (old and new) and to each one add 2 of the special monsters. Then, depending on which character is chosen, use that deck.
This would allow 4 of the specials in each play, but never more than 2 per round.

Also, has anyone tried playing 3 successes for a win, and 3 failures for elimination (each failure turns over one of the two player aid cards from white to red to keep track)?

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Alexandre Bitsch
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Bassfisher44 wrote:
2 separate monster decks (old and new) and to each one add 2 of the special monsters. Then, depending on which character is chosen, use that deck.
It works only if you have sleeves with an opaque back : the old and new monsters don't have the same back.

Bassfisher44 wrote:
Also, has anyone tried playing 3 successes for a win, and 3 failures for elimination (each failure turns over one of the two player aid cards from white to red to keep track)?
It works perfectly : the two games have 13 success cards together ^^ Didn't try yet.
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F
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Unfortunately, no.

The only thing I could discard were the Victory Point scroll cards. In my opinion you only need 5 (one to each player for a four-way tie, and the final one going to the tiebreaking win).

Other than that I've had to double up and just pack all the components together. It leaves the box at about 110% filled (which drives me nuts!), and I just know that there was a better solution for something like this.

The monster cards per dungeon are really not combinable, since I think they included the 0-power pixie in this newest game to counteract the fact that you're getting 2 special monsters added. That 0 pixie also has some (not) fun interactions with some of the new powers, so therefore that makes me think the heroes were tailored to only work with their specific dungeons. Do not shuffle the special monsters into the original 4 heroes' dungeon deck.

Because of all this I treat this game as having 8 selectable heroes, and explaining it to friends I say that the 2nd half of 4 are more like the 'expert heroes'.
 
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