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Mystic Vale: Vale of Magic» Forums » Rules

Subject: Hatchery timing rss

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Henrik Johansson
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RAW Buy Advancements wrote:
Advancements you buy are not sleeved until your Discard Phase. Abilities and symbols on advancements that are not sleeved cannot be used.
RAW Discard Phase wrote:
After your advancements are sleeved (if any), put all cards in your field off...
Hatchery advancement wrote:
DISCARD: If not the first card in your field leave it in play as the first card in your field for your next turn.

I think it is inferred that you can use your newly bought Hatchery advancement in the discard phase the very same turn as you buy it, since it is first sleeved, then put up for discard, when the rule triggers. My group ruled otherwise: It was ruled that the Hatchery had to be discarded as any other newly bought advancement. This takes the sting out of Hatchery since it loses one turn in a very turn-tight game. Which is it? I think it is a pity this obvious issue was not explained in the RAW in the Expansion rule book, otherwise very clear, exact and repetitive. This obvious issue was forgotten.
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I would discard the card as it is what makes the most sense per the RAW rules and regular deckbuilder rules. Is anything stated in the booklet? Everything is described in the base game booklet.

Interesting question, though.
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Philip Mazzone
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I would agree here. It would be discarded. Upon buying a card, it stays to the side until your finished buying. Then when your done, all cards get sleeved and discarded, usually while the next person is already taking their turn. Since the card wasnt sleeved and active when it came out at the start of your turn, you wouldnt be entitled to its powers. Thats how we play as understood by the rules.
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Clinton Rice
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I don't think there is any ambiguity here. How can you "leave it in play" in your field if it wasn't in play in your field to begin with? Like every other card in the game, you gain its ability when it's played to your field. In this case, drawing it into your field means you get the benefits of the card two turns in a row, provided you: didn't have it as your on-deck card.

When you draw it. Not when you sleeve it.
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Henrik Johansson
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I think I am following the RAW, Rules As Written here. The Hatchery advancement text tells us to leave the card in play. The card where the advancement is sleeved was obviously in play before the purchase of Hatchery.
The basic rule is no longer applicable after sleeving: It applies to unsleeved advancements, not "newly-bought advancements", which would be the same and have the same effect unless it is a When-discard ability. Sleeved abilities can be used, unsleeved can not. The Hatchery is sleeved, then up for discard, and its rule kicks in, and the card it is sleeved in is kept in play for the next round.
 
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Clinton Rice
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You said yourself that you add abilities during the discard phade. My feeling is it works like this.

1. Discard phase. Do any of your cards in play (in the field) have a discard effect? Nope.

2. Move on to adding enhancements. Take the card out of your field, add the hatchery then move it out of play as normal. If the effect wasn't there when Discard begins, you should ignore it.

The clear inference from the rules is that you don't benefit from enhancements the turn you buy them. I see no reason hatchery should be an exception.
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Henrik Johansson
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KoalaXav wrote:
The clear inference from the rules is that you don't benefit from enhancements the turn you buy them. I see no reason hatchery should be an exception.

Any "When discarded..." advancement is exceptional since the RAW speaks about unsleeved advancements, not newly bought ones, and the RAW does not specify that the "Is this advancement applicable?" check must come before the sleeving. So the Hatchery is sleeved into a card, and its rule then becomes applicable for the whole card immediately. If I am wrong, the RAW needs a clarification of this, unless there is some part of the RAW you all see but I miss.
KoalaXav wrote:
Like every other card in the game, you gain its ability when it's played to your field.

Where does the RAW say this?
 
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John Clair
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I wish we'd clarified this in the rules. We will in the second expansion, which has another advancement with a "Discard" phase ability on it.

Henrik is right, that if you took a strict interpretation of the rules, Hatchery would trigger the turn you buy it. That is, however, not the intention of the card, and the card clarification section should say something like, note "Hatchery's 'Discard phase' ability does NOT resolve the turn you buy and sleeve the Hatchery."

Great question!
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Gabriel Burns
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JohnDClair wrote:
I wish we'd clarified this in the rules. We will in the second expansion, which has another advancement with a "Discard" phase ability on it.

Henrik is right, that if you took a strict interpretation of the rules, Hatchery would trigger the turn you buy it. That is, however, not the intention of the card, and the card clarification section should say something like, note "Hatchery's 'Discard phase' ability does NOT resolve the turn you buy and sleeve the Hatchery."

Great question!


Thanks for the clarification. I've been wondering about Hatchery since I bought the expansion. I played last night and wanted to find out for sure. It's nice to see that this has already been addressed.
 
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