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7 Wonders Duel: Pantheon» Forums » Variants

Subject: Guilds & Temples Together! Setup rss

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Alex Ronke
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Per the Pantheon rules, you're supposed to use the new Grand Temples in lieu of the original Guild cards.

This seems a little unnecessary to me, as I think they could both be easily integrated into the Age III setup with only some minor tweaks.

Guilds & Temples Together! Setup

Modified Setup for Age III:

1) Shuffle all of the basic Age III cards to form an Age III deck.
2) Remove 3 basic Age III cards face-down to the box.
3) Remove 1 basic Age III card face-down to the discard pile.*
4) Randomly select 3 Guild cards and add them face-down to the Age III deck.
5) Randomly select 3 Grand Temple cards and add them face-down to the Age III deck.
6) Shuffle the whole Age III deck.
7) Deal the deck in the following modified pattern:


U = Face-up card
d = Face-down card

U U
d d d
U U U U
d d d d
U U U U
d d d
U U


Note that the only changes from the usual structure are the two additional face-down cards on the edges of the middle row.

* Moving one basic Age III card to the discard pile ensures that it's not entirely out of the game while still maintaining an even-numbered card count in the Age III structure.
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Dan Zielinski
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Clever. Will try it! Thank you for sharing.
 
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Mark Gilborson
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I like this!
 
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Pablo Chipboard
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Interesting!

Will give it a try. Thanks!
 
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Marco Molari
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I think i'll try it very soon. I'll let you know my opinion about your rules Thank you very very much!!!
 
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Dan Zielinski
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Thank you for this. My wife and I both like it over the Temples only. We've only made one change.

Modified Setup for Age III:

1) Shuffle all of the basic Age III cards to form an Age III deck.
2) Remove 3 basic Age III cards face-down to the box.
3) Remove 1 basic Age III card face-down to the discard pile.*
4) Randomly select 3 Guild cards and add them face-down to the Age III deck.
5) Randomly select 3 Grand Temple cards and add them face-down to the Age III deck.
6) Shuffle the whole Age III deck.
7) Deal the deck in the following modified pattern.
8) Last card is shown and then discarded.

This makes it possible for a Guild or Temple to end up in the Discard Pile and thus the wonder and deity that allow the player to go get it are possibly more important.
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Alex Ronke
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rent13579 wrote:
Thank you for this. My wife and I both like it over the Temples only. We've only made one change.

Modified Setup for Age III:

1) Shuffle all of the basic Age III cards to form an Age III deck.
2) Remove 3 basic Age III cards face-down to the box.
3) Remove 1 basic Age III card face-down to the discard pile.*
4) Randomly select 3 Guild cards and add them face-down to the Age III deck.
5) Randomly select 3 Grand Temple cards and add them face-down to the Age III deck.
6) Shuffle the whole Age III deck.
7) Deal the deck in the following modified pattern.
8) Last card is shown and then discarded.

This makes it possible for a Guild or Temple to end up in the Discard Pile and thus the wonder and deity that allow the player to go get it are possibly more important.


I wondered about doing it that way. It seems like that puts a tad too much value on the Wonder/Deity that can dig through the pile, since normally the only guilds in the pile are those deliberately put there by players.
 
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Dan Zielinski
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kingalces wrote:

I wondered about doing it that way. It seems like that puts a tad too much value on the Wonder/Deity that can dig through the pile, since normally the only guilds in the pile are those deliberately put there by players.


It does... and we love it... when it happens. It won't happen very often but when a Temple is put into the discard during set-up... the tension is high. Either to get it before the other player... or to make sure the other player doesn't get the other 2 in the pyramid.
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Fritz Meinhard
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Fantastic modification! We have a lot of pleasure with this Setup, the game is more exciting and highly balanced!
Fritz
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Baramon
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they have to make it official its so much better this way.
 
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Mihir Shah
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Love this variant and never play without it, the only change we do is to not discard the last card but put face down right in the center of the structure, i.e middle of the 4th row from top, in this way i can play with 3 guilds and 3 temples and also this enables us to just discard 3(instead of 4 as per the variant of the OP) Age 3 cards as in the normal rules.

Would love to know what people think abt it here?
 
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Alex Ronke
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jalwaaa wrote:
Love this variant and never play without it, the only change we do is to not discard the last card but put face down right in the center of the structure, i.e middle of the 4th row from top, in this way i can play with 3 guilds and 3 temples and also this enables us to just discard 3(instead of 4 as per the variant of the OP) Age 3 cards as in the normal rules.

Would love to know what people think abt it here?


The reason I suggested not doing this is that, in all other cases, there are an even number of cards in the structure. Each player has the same number of turns per age by default. Only through special player actions (by using a Deity or extra-turn-wonder) can a player change the number of turns they take.

Without any such player actions, an odd number of cards in the structure grants one additional turn to whichever player starts that round by default, which is actually quite an advantage. Throwing the one card into the discard pile maintains the even-count status quo established in all other ages.

Additionally, keep in mind that you're not chucking 4 cards to the box with this variant. You're putting 3 Age III cards in the box as normal and one card in the discard pile (with a few different means of fetching it later).
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Matthew Soto
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Looking at step 3, it looks like it is only adding a BASIC age 3 card, no temple or guild, since this occurs before you add either Guilds or Temples to the Age 3 deck. Dunno why people think it's going to put a Guild or a Temple into the post set up discard pile. (I think I remember that there's cards that allows you to peek through cards that have been discarded in gameplay, those that allow you to peek through the discarded cards from setup, and one that allows you to see both). Just thought to say
 
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Boian Spasov
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Nice variant! I plan to test it but only using 2 Guilds instead of 3 and thus removing the need to discard a card.

edit: Works like a charm. I wonder if the guilds were removed only for the sake of setup simplicity or there was another reason.
 
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Matthew Soto
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blizzardb wrote:
Nice variant! I plan to test it but only using 2 Guilds instead of 3 and thus removing the need to discard a card.

edit: Works like a charm. I wonder if the guilds were removed only for the sake of setup simplicity or there was another reason.


Maybe they thought that 22 cards in Age 3 would make the game more back heavy. That's my best guess. Setup for Age 3 in both modes always has you removing 3 cards from a 20 card deck and adding in 3 cards from the mode specific deck (Guilds or Grand Temples) to bring it back up to 20. VS the Age 1 and Age 2 decks having 23 cards in the deck and you remove 3 from the game.
 
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Conan Meriadoc
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lomdr wrote:
Maybe they thought that 22 cards in Age 3 would make the game more back heavy. That's my best guess.

Makes sense. Every source of points added to Age III puts an emphasis on resources/trade cards in the first two ages, and decreases the relative value of early points. Those Age I blue cards don't need weakening, they're rarely a choice pick anyway


 
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