$5.00
$15.00
$20.00
Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
26 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Arkham Horror: The Card Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: "Automatically evade all enemies" (Cunning Distraction) rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dee
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mb
I'm reading the (excellent) card discussion articles recently put up on cardgamedb.com and I see the author's comment for Cunning Distraction, a Survivor card.

(link to article: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/index.html/_/articles/ar...)



The author makes the following observation:

Quote:
Auto-evading all enemies at a location means all monsters on everyone fall off and lie stunned, on the floor. It doesn't matter who they were engaged with, or what they were doing, they're now lying in a heap, and the party has a full turn to run rampage and do whatever they want to.


I'm not actually questioning the accuracy of this statement (as the author plainly has more experience with the game and its rules than I), but, in accepting that my interpretation of the card is incorrect, I am left wondering why the card causes all enemies at the location to exhaust, even the enemies in other local investigators' Threat Areas.

For clarity, my own reading of this card was that only the Investigator playing the Event would "Evade. Automatically evade all enemies at your location." As in: Wendy, say, would play this and shake off and Exhaust the two Ghouls snapping at her fingertips, but nearby Roland would still have a gaggle of Rats climbing up his trousers.

Can someone help my Rules-Fu and point me at the bit of the Rulebook that highlights why it applies wholesale to all enemies at a location, in your own Threat Area and other's?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Elliott
Canada
Regina
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The card text is the rule - not sure there would be a quote to back it up. It is one of the most expensive events in the game.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Leonhard
United States
West Virginia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
No experience with the game yet, but I agree with the OP. I would never have interpreted this card to mean that all enemies--even those attacking other characters are considered evaded. It would seem to mean that the character playing the card evades all enemies.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
RRG p.10; 'Enemy Engagement' wrote:
Each enemy in an investigator’s threat area is considered to be at the same location as that investigator


So yes, it applies to everything.

As for thematic reasoning; look at the card art for one idea. You're not running from these things; you're creating a distraction that keeps every enemy at the location occupied for a full turn (though Yog-Sothoth only knows where you find a whole roast turkey just laying around).
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Milo Gertjejansen
United States
Hopkins
Minnesota
flag msg tools
~ >
badge
mbmbmbmb
Noaloha wrote:
I'm reading the (excellent) card discussion articles recently put up on cardgamedb.com and I see the author's comment for Cunning Distraction, a Survivor card.

(link to article: http://www.cardgamedb.com/index.php/index.html/_/articles/ar...)



The author makes the following observation:

Quote:
Auto-evading all enemies at a location means all monsters on everyone fall off and lie stunned, on the floor. It doesn't matter who they were engaged with, or what they were doing, they're now lying in a heap, and the party has a full turn to run rampage and do whatever they want to.


I'm not actually questioning the accuracy of this statement (as the author plainly has more experience with the game and its rules than I), but, in accepting that my interpretation of the card is incorrect, I am left wondering why the card causes all enemies at the location to exhaust, even the enemies in other local investigators' Threat Areas.

For clarity, my own reading of this card was that only the Investigator playing the Event would "Evade. Automatically evade all enemies at your location." As in: Wendy, say, would play this and shake off and Exhaust the two Ghouls snapping at her fingertips, but nearby Roland would still have a gaggle of Rats climbing up his trousers.

Can someone help my Rules-Fu and point me at the bit of the Rulebook that highlights why it applies wholesale to all enemies at a location, in your own Threat Area and other's?


Is there an implication of Evade that says they have to be engaged with you?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
Actually, on re-reading the section on EVADE:

RRG p.11 wrote:
Unlike the fight and engage action, an investigator can only perform an evade action against an enemy engaged with him or her.


Emphasis added. So no, this DOESN'T work for enemies engaged with other investigators.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lee Elliott
Canada
Regina
Saskatchewan
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Also:

From the FAQ on Cardgamedb:

4) Does Cunning Distraction evade (exhaust + disengage) enemies that are engaged with other investigators? RRG says the Evade action can only be performed against an enemy engaged with you. It's unclear whether this restriction applies to evading by card ability as well.

As for your final question about Cunning Distraction, it is just as the card says—it automatically evades all enemies at your location (regardless of who they are engaged with). The evade action can only be used on enemies engaged with you, but other evade effects (like Stray Cat and Cunning Distraction) just do exactly what they say.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew Keddie
Wales
flag msg tools
mbmbmb
blelliott01 wrote:
Also:

From the FAQ on Cardgamedb:

4) Does Cunning Distraction evade (exhaust + disengage) enemies that are engaged with other investigators? RRG says the Evade action can only be performed against an enemy engaged with you. It's unclear whether this restriction applies to evading by card ability as well.

As for your final question about Cunning Distraction, it is just as the card says—it automatically evades all enemies at your location (regardless of who they are engaged with). The evade action can only be used on enemies engaged with you, but other evade effects (like Stray Cat and Cunning Distraction) just do exactly what they say.


Haha I stand corrected.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dee
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mb
No, yeah, I think I do see it now. The parts that were tripping me up, if I'm being honest with myself, stem in main from personal assumption rather than cold text in a rulebook.

The game verb 'Evade' has an implicit effect on enemies:

Quote:
* Any time an enemy is evaded (whether by an evade action,
or by card ability), the enemy is exhausted (if it was ready)
and the engagement is broken. Move the enemy from the
investigator’s threat area to the investigator’s location to
mark that it is no longer engaged with that investigator.

(p11, RR)

What is tripping me up most in the above quote I think is that engagement and investigator are used with a definite article -- "the engagement", "the investigator" -- and my brain is kind of auto-attaching that to the single investigator currently acting.

But yes, the ruletext as written simply applies disengagement and exhaustion as a direct of the game verb 'Evade'. And all enemies at the location are being 'Evade'-ed.

I think?


EDIT: oh crap, I wrote this after the first three replies. Now some other posts have been posted and things got complicated again.

EDIT2: Nope, nope, all is actually neat and tidy.

Thanks for the clarifications!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Noaloha wrote:
Can someone help my Rules-Fu and point me at the bit of the Rulebook that highlights why it applies wholesale to all enemies at a location, in your own Threat Area and other's?


I don't own a copy and haven't played, but perhaps I can offer an observation?

If the card read "Evade all enemies you are engaged with" I think that would be character specific. However, the fact that it indicates "At Your Location" -- locations are large areas that can include multiple characters.

So the "Evade" option (rules reference, pg. 11) is character based and specifically impacts only the creatures that character is engaged with.

A distraction played at a location would impact all enemies at that location - and any player character there would benefit from whatever distraction has been applied - even if they are not engaged with the enemies at that location. I'm not yet familiar enough with the rules to be able to point to a reference where it indicates location effects impact all characters/enemies in the same location, but my casual reading of the rules online hasn't revealed a specific reference.

I would imagine it's a question/clarification that is perfect for a FAQ, but it's seemingly a powerful card.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Immortal
Canada
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
The text on the bottom of the card say: that should buy US some time so I think its pretty obvious that it works with everyone on this location.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Parkin
United States
Stow
Ohio
flag msg tools
Push Cubes. Blow Stuff Up.
badge
MIND. BLOWN.
mbmbmbmbmb
"That should buy me some private time alone while you die slowly."

That flavor text draft just didn't evoke teamwork.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
James Gosss
msg tools
gooThe reason for including the Keyword EVADE on the card was to prevent attacks of opportunity from engaged creatures. If the event did not include the keyword you would be subject to damage before all creatures were evaded. Additionally, if an upcoming creature is immune to EVADE, the keyword, it could be argued wether they are effected by an event that auto evades creatures. With the inclusion of the keyword the relationship is clearer.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Immortal
Canada
Quebec
flag msg tools
mb
also, you are throwing a tasty chicken...ofcourse ALL monsters will go for it
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Emil Nygaard
msg tools
mb
I'm looking forward to the day where I can throw a stuffed turkey into Azathoth's lair and see him go for it, while I solve his mysteries
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Clements
Norway
Oslo
flag msg tools
Turns out Esseb did touch the flag. Don't tell him I said so though.
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's more bizarre you can throw a chicken and have people enemies leap all over it distracted.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Oytoyt
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Do you think throwing a roast chicken would be just as effective against human enemies?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
mplain
Russia
flag msg tools
mbmb
Note that Stray Cat can also be used to evade enemies that you're not engaged with.

I think this interaction is super unintuitive, and the simple reasoning of "card text trumps the rulebook" is not enough. Hopefully it'll be clarified in the official FAQ.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robbie M.
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Oytoyt wrote:
Do you think throwing a roast chicken would be just as effective against human enemies?

Against human enemies you would want to throw them a heavy euro game. That would keep them busy for hours.
8 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Parkin
United States
Stow
Ohio
flag msg tools
Push Cubes. Blow Stuff Up.
badge
MIND. BLOWN.
mbmbmbmbmb
roborob wrote:
Oytoyt wrote:
Do you think throwing a roast chicken would be just as effective against human enemies?

Against human enemies you would want to throw them a heavy euro game. That would keep them busy for hours.

thumbsup
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Oytoyt
Australia
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
To be fair, roast chicken is delicious.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Parkin
United States
Stow
Ohio
flag msg tools
Push Cubes. Blow Stuff Up.
badge
MIND. BLOWN.
mbmbmbmbmb
Oytoyt wrote:
To be fair, roast chicken is delicious.

Nine out of ten polled flying demon monkeys agree!
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Taylor S
United States
New York
New York
flag msg tools
mbmb
The flavor text, the highest tier card cost, and the rule that card text trumps book text, all support the conclusion that ALL enemies at the location are evaded, not just those engaged with the playing investigator. Otherwise this card simply duplicates an existing free evade card at 2x the cost.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
William Schramm
United States
Cincinnati
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
From Rules Refence:
Evade, Evade Action
“Evade” is an action an investigator may take during
his or her turn in the investigation phase.
To evade an enemy engaged with an investigator, that
investigator makes an agility test against the enemy’s
evade value (see “Skill Tests” on page 18).
If the test is successful, the investigator successfully evades
the enemy (see below). (Tis occurs during step 7 of the skill
test, per “ST.7 Apply skill test results” on page 26.)
If the test fails, the investigator does not evade the
enemy, and it remains engaged with him or her.
= If an ability “automatically” evades 1 or more enemies,
no skill test is made for the evasion atempt.
= Any time an enemy is evaded (whether by an evade action,
or by card ability), the enemy is exhausted (if it was ready)
and the engagement is broken. Move the enemy from the
investigator’s threat area to the investigator’s location to
mark that it is no longer engaged with that investigator.
= Unlike the fght and engage action, an investigator
can only perform an evade action against
an enemy engaged with him or her.


you will notice it list Evade and Evade Action in the header. "An investigator can only perform an evade action against an enemy engaged with him or her"

the restriction specifically states evade action, not evade and in the the previous paragraph it states (whether by an evade action or by card ability).

and let us not forget the Golden Rule from page 2 rules reference
If the text of a card directly contradicts the text
of either the Rules Reference or the Learn to Play
book, the text of the card takes precedence


the car specifically states "Automatically evade all enemies at your location"

and und locations pg 14 RR:
While an investigator is at a location, that investigator,
each of his or her assets, and each card in that
investigator’s threat area is at the same location


so yes I believe it would effect all enemies of all investigators at the same location.

Just my 5 cents worth
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Richard A. Edwards
United States
Lacey
Washington
flag msg tools
designer
mbmbmbmbmb
I went through the same process (nicely explained!) and came to the same conclusion.

will565 wrote:
From Rules Refence:
Evade, Evade Action
“Evade” is an action an investigator may take during
his or her turn in the investigation phase.
To evade an enemy engaged with an investigator, that
investigator makes an agility test against the enemy’s
evade value (see “Skill Tests” on page 18).
If the test is successful, the investigator successfully evades
the enemy (see below). (Tis occurs during step 7 of the skill
test, per “ST.7 Apply skill test results” on page 26.)
If the test fails, the investigator does not evade the
enemy, and it remains engaged with him or her.
= If an ability “automatically” evades 1 or more enemies,
no skill test is made for the evasion atempt.
= Any time an enemy is evaded (whether by an evade action,
or by card ability), the enemy is exhausted (if it was ready)
and the engagement is broken. Move the enemy from the
investigator’s threat area to the investigator’s location to
mark that it is no longer engaged with that investigator.
= Unlike the fght and engage action, an investigator
can only perform an evade action against
an enemy engaged with him or her.


you will notice it list Evade and Evade Action in the header. "An investigator can only perform an evade action against an enemy engaged with him or her"

the restriction specifically states evade action, not evade and in the the previous paragraph it states (whether by an evade action or by card ability).

and let us not forget the Golden Rule from page 2 rules reference
If the text of a card directly contradicts the text
of either the Rules Reference or the Learn to Play
book, the text of the card takes precedence


the car specifically states "Automatically evade all enemies at your location"

and und locations pg 14 RR:
While an investigator is at a location, that investigator,
each of his or her assets, and each card in that
investigator’s threat area is at the same location


so yes I believe it would effect all enemies of all investigators at the same location.

Just my 5 cents worth
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.