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Subject: Concerns about the endgame. rss

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Trey Chambers
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So I'm very interested in purchasing this game as I tend to love Euro/Conflict hybrids like Chaos, Blood Rage, and Cry Havoc. However, I strongly dislike bash the leader mechanics. There is some of that in those games, but there are so many layers of interaction it's not always feasible or pronounced.

However, I worry about Inis because I hear there's a lot of beat down the leader in the end game. The end game condition seems especially conducive to it, with your opponents basically having a round specifically to tear you down and prevent you from winning.

It also seems rife for kingmaking, because there might be a round where I can prevent you from winning, but it won't put me into position to win, it will just help some other player win the next round.

Altogether it sounds like something I would hate. Any thoughts by those who have actually played?
 
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Matthias Bürger
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I've played several times and I love it. Usually multiple players are close to victory and someone has to win, so it's tense till the end.

There is already another thread discussing this topic named 'feeling prebuyers remorse...'
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Michael Stone
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Trey, it just means that you have to set yourself up to complete more then one win condition. This makes the game much more strategic. Notice though, that the win conditions tend to be close cousins. If your in position to do one, you usually only have to stretch your resources a little bit more to have a good shot at a second win condition. The problem you'll have keep an eye on; someone making a sprint for a single win condition. Fortunately, the rest of the players at the table will probably help you with the sprint prevention.
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Cole Wehrle
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I've only played the game a handful of times, but my feeling is that this is a game that demands that players aggressively play each other. That's another way of saying that the game is rife with both leader bashing and kingmaking.

So, this one might be a pass for you. I found that I liked it dramatically more than Blood Rage.
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Three Headed Monkey
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Shampoo4you wrote:

So I'm very interested in purchasing this game as I tend to love Euro/Conflict hybrids like Chaos, Blood Rage, and Cry Havoc. However, I strongly dislike bash the leader mechanics. There is some of that in those games, but there are so many layers of interaction it's not always feasible or pronounced.

However, I worry about Inis because I hear there's a lot of beat down the leader in the end game. The end game condition seems especially conducive to it, with your opponents basically having a round specifically to tear you down and prevent you from winning.

It also seems rife for kingmaking, because there might be a round where I can prevent you from winning, but it won't put me into position to win, it will just help some other player win the next round.

Altogether it sounds like something I would hate. Any thoughts by those who have actually played?


This game encourages players to not just tear the leading player down because if two players claim a pretender token and only have one victory condition completed then the game continues. Also because victory is only checked at the start of a round that encourages players to work towards their own goals rather than using an action to tear down an opponent, giving advantage to everyone else.
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Brett Hudoba
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It's not "bash the leader" in a sense of everybody picking on one player because they happen to be 20+ points ahead of everyone else; it's rather a struggle to qualify for victory conditions. I'd liken it more along the lines of everybody racing to be the first to the top of a hill, and you're trying to trip up whomever is ahead just long enough for you gain an advantage and get past them. There's no fixed number of turns after which you need to have the most VPs, but rather a sudden-death situation.

Timing is also absolutely crucial. It's not accurate to say that opponents have a full round to stop you when you declare potential victory; in fact, you more often will want to wait until near the end of a round when everyone is short on cards and have fewer options to prevent the win.

This is why the Pretender tokens are so key to the game. Unless you meet a victory condition ON YOUR TURN, you can't even take one--and it requires an action to do so. As such, more often than not when a player is in position to claim a token, others will take efforts to throw a wrench in the works so that they no longer qualify on their following turn.

It's honestly up to the players to police each other. You want to let others know when another player is close to winning, but keep quiet when you're maneuvering into position yourself and hope no one notices. It definitely is very tense and momentum can shift back and forth pretty quickly, especially with clever card play.
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