$20.00
Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Abyss: Kraken» Forums » Rules

Subject: The Kraken's Lair rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lari Rissanen
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Kraken's Lair

15 - 3 influence for each of your Nebulis.

A situation came up where someone took this location and proceeded to gain enough Nebulis to go below the 15 points which the location gives.

15-(3*6 Nebulis)=-3 influence

Would this location actually give a penalty to the player? We ruled that he just gains nothing for the location.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Desiree Greverud
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I see no reason why it wouldn't give negative points. What in the rules makes you think otherwise?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marco Ulloa Velderrain
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
No reason to give negative points, the locations give bonus points not penalties, in this case you just loose any bonus points that expending the keys for the location would have given you, that should be punishment enough
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Desiree Greverud
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
The locations give points, not "bonuses" in this case, the location gives points minus points per nebulis. Why should someone who gathered up lots of nebulis be immune from the negative effects?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Pereira
United Kingdom
Belfast
flag msg tools
See the person next to you? Kill! Kill!!! KILLL!!!!
badge
I'm your baby! Can you feel it?
mbmbmbmbmb
I would probably have ruled no fewer than zero points, but can see Desiree's point of view.

On the other hand, having the most nebulis gives you a penalty, not sure a location would... I'm sure we can expect clarification from the designer on this.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lari Rissanen
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Losing the lords, the keys, -6 points for Nebulis (and in this case additional -5 for having the most). It is possible for people to dump Nebulis on you with other lords and by buying allies to make the location lose it's worth. These are all a penalty already. I didn't think it would be necessary to punish them further.

If the situation ever comes up again, I think I'll play it just like we did last time just because I think it's enough of a punishment to lose all the investment one put into getting the location.

I would like an official answer from Mr. Cathala, of course. Thank you for all your replies.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Pereira
United Kingdom
Belfast
flag msg tools
See the person next to you? Kill! Kill!!! KILLL!!!!
badge
I'm your baby! Can you feel it?
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't think that the argument "it's enough penalties already" is of relevance, but it's merely about how this was intended by the designer.

All players have to be able to manage negative outcomes of their actions, if they go down a route of penalties then they take those penalties and if they can't manage them they'll lose.

This is an important question actually and it would be good to know Bruno Cathala's intention with this location.

Desiree's point of view is absolutely valid and technically the more accurate. If you have that location, it adds 15 points to your score but also subtracts 3 for each Nebulis. Not stating anything to otherwise, the only logical assumption is that you keep subtracting below zero.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Marco Ulloa Velderrain
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
In this case the location gives 15 points that's it, if you have nebulis you have less points but never negative points, locations are not intended to take away points but only to add them.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Desiree Greverud
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
marco_ulloav wrote:
In this case the location gives 15 points that's it, if you have nebulis you have less points but never negative points, locations are not intended to take away points but only to add them.

why do you think that? Is that in the rule book somewhere? that locations never take away points?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dirk Rieberghs
Belgium
Turnhout
-- Maak uw keuze --
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
DragonsDream wrote:
marco_ulloav wrote:
In this case the location gives 15 points that's it, if you have nebulis you have less points but never negative points, locations are not intended to take away points but only to add them.

why do you think that? Is that in the rule book somewhere? that locations never take away points?

Is it somewhere in the rulebook that they can take negative points ?? whistle
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Desiree Greverud
Sweden
Stockholm
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
dirkske wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
marco_ulloav wrote:
In this case the location gives 15 points that's it, if you have nebulis you have less points but never negative points, locations are not intended to take away points but only to add them.

why do you think that? Is that in the rule book somewhere? that locations never take away points?

Is it somewhere in the rulebook that they can take negative points ?? whistle

yes, in fact, it is. the rule for that location is "gain 15 points, minus 3 points for each nebulis you own". If you own over 5 nebulis, that equals negative points. There is nothing in the rules that mitigates this. It is pure math. The people who are claiming that the total can't go below 0 are the ones looking for special dispensation, not me.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro Pereira
United Kingdom
Belfast
flag msg tools
See the person next to you? Kill! Kill!!! KILLL!!!!
badge
I'm your baby! Can you feel it?
mbmbmbmbmb
DragonsDream wrote:
dirkske wrote:
DragonsDream wrote:
marco_ulloav wrote:
In this case the location gives 15 points that's it, if you have nebulis you have less points but never negative points, locations are not intended to take away points but only to add them.

why do you think that? Is that in the rule book somewhere? that locations never take away points?

Is it somewhere in the rulebook that they can take negative points ?? whistle

yes, in fact, it is. the rule for that location is "gain 15 points, minus 3 points for each nebulis you own". If you own over 5 nebulis, that equals negative points. There is nothing in the rules that mitigates this. It is pure math. The people who are claiming that the total can't go below 0 are the ones looking for special dispensation, not me.


I'm with Desiree on this one. Even though intuitively I'd have ruled otherwise, the fact is that the location is quite clear. 15 -3/Nebulis. Logically, if there is no rule specifying otherwise, you keep subtracting beyond 0 [zero] if you got more than 5 Nebulis.

So unless this has been ommited by mistake, Desiree is correct in her interpretation.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lari Rissanen
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Yes. If the official answer is "You can gain negative influence points for the location" then that'll be the way it's going to be played from then on. For now though, (although it's highly improbable that the situation will come up again) because the rule was already established like this for us in that game, we'll continue playing it so that you can't go below 0 points for the location.

This was one of the first games with the expansion and it was more enjoyable for all to not punish the player for gaining so many Nebulis after taking the location.

I understand the arguments for ruling otherwise. Thank you

edit: I also sent the question to Bombyx. Maybe we'll get an official answer soon enough.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.