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Princeps Machiavelli» Forums » Rules

Subject: Questions on New Rules and Tutorial rss

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Chris Dorrell
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OK guys here we go,

First of all the new rules are a lot better. There are a few phrases I would alter and I'll comment on those in another post.

My main concern is that I'm still confused about the "Drawing Cards" phase. Taking this a stage at a time:-

1. Maximum Number of Cards.
My original understanding from version 1 of the rules was that you drew cards equal to number of territories possessed + 4. If this meant you had more than 12 cards in hand then you discarded down to 12. I was unclear whether you had to discard before or after the card draw.

The new rules and tutorial now state that the number of territories possessed + 4 gives the maximum hand size. The 12 maximum only applies if a player has 9 territories in which case he could not have 13 cards.

Is this significant change in the rules intended and have I got it right?

2. Picking Up Cards
In a reply in an earlier thread here on BGG, Borja stated:-
In "Drawing Cards Stage" players must take all the cards on the territories (command and action cards), then, players can discard and take new cards.

In other words I take that to mean that if at the end of a round I have 5 territories, 8 cards on them and none in hand, I pick up the eight cards, discard any I don’t want and draw back up to 9 cards (5 territories +4).

BUT In the tutorial on the “ROUND 2 Drawing Cards" page all of the cards are not picked up!....

Player 1 has 6 grey cards which are presumably what he has picked up; he has 4 territories so he is entitled to 4+4=8 cards and therefore picks up 2 more cards. OK so far but why has the Revolt card on the sea bordered territory not been picked up?

Now for Player 2. He has picked up 6 (grey) cards and has 3 territories. He discards 1 and draws 2 bringing him up to 7 which is his hand limit of 7 (3 territories +4). Again OK but there’s a Settler card still on his third territory.

So do you “take all the cards on the territories (command and action cards)” as Borja stated or are there some card types you can leave behind? In the same thread Borja also wrote: “You can't leave command or action cards over the territories to increase the cards in hand.” But this appears to be what players 1 and 2 are doing in the tutorial!

These card management issues are so fundamental to game play that I think we need to nail down the correct and intended approach before we go any further.

As ever, apologies in advance if I’ve missed something or got things completely wrong.

I look forward to Borja’s reply.
Cheers
Chris



 
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Borja Lopez Barinaga
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The cards remaining in territories in ROUND 2 (Drawing Cards Stage) are special cards like Settlers Cards, Fort Cards or Conspiracy Card. These Cards can remain fixed in territories.

Quote:
Player 1 has 6 grey cards which are presumably what he has picked up; he has 4 territories so he is entitled to 4+4=8 cards and therefore picks up 2 more cards. OK so far but why has the Revolt card on the sea bordered territory not been picked up?

Is not a Revolt Card it’s a Fort Card. And this type of card must remain in territory. (See Fort Card in Rules, 5.12.).

Quote:
Now for Player 2. He has picked up 6 (grey) cards and has 3 territories. He discards 1 and draws 2 bringing him up to 7 which is his hand limit of 7 (3 territories +4). Again OK but there’s a Settler card still on his third territory.

Settler Card must remain in territory fixed. (See Settler Card in Rules, 5.10.).

Thanks.
 
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Chris Dorrell
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Borja,

Thanks for the response.

So let me try and word the relevant rules as I understand them:-


4.1 Before Play

The last sentence should read:-
Each player places his three Territories face up on the table.


4.2 Playing the Game
...
...
1) Drawing Cards:

Each player in turn:-

1.1 Takes back into his hand any face down unused cards and all face up used cards except for Settlers and Forts which must remain in the territories in which they were played. Note also that any successful Conspiracy cards in independent territories in the middle of the table are not picked up by any player. Territories are never picked up once played.
1.2 Discards any unwanted cards.
1.3 Calculates his hand limit. This is the number of territories he owns (stabilised or destabilised) + 4. The hand limit cannot be more than 12. Thus a player with 6 territories has a hand limit of 10 cards and one with 9 territories has a hand limit of 12 (not 13!).
1.4 Draws or discards enough cards to bring the number of cards in his hand to equal his hand limit. Prince cards are included in the hand count.

Then the next player picks up and draws cards in the same way.

Note: On the first turn when no cards have been played, steps 1.1 and 1.2 above are omitted. Also the hand limit will be always be 7 on the first turn (3 territories + 4). This will mean that most players will draw 4 cards as they will already have a Prince card, 1 citizen army card and 1 mercenary army card. The exception is a Noble Principality which will only draw 3 cards as it starts with an extra Citizens army.


Is that right?

Chris
 
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Borja Lopez Barinaga
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Yes, that’s right.
Perfect!
 
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Chris Dorrell
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Thank goodness.

I think the main thing which is not made clear in the official rules is what's contained in action 1.1 above.

I don't think the rules actually say anywhere that you pick up your non territory cards at the start of a turn. Also having the rule, about Forts and Settlers not moving, in the card description section is fine but it should be mentioned in the main rules as well.

Now we have that fundamental part sorted we'll play test the rest of the rules.

Cheers
Chris
 
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