Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

BoardGameGeek» Forums » Gaming Related » Recommendations

Subject: Memoir 44 and CC: Ancients rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Ken Shin
United States
Paramus
New Jersey
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I've been reading about both these games and had a question. If you add some of the expansions to Memoir 44, will you have as deep and rich a game as CC:A?

One of the main differences between the two have been that Memoir is faster, "more fun", but not as deep and strategic while CC:A is deeper, more strategic, but slower.

1. Does adding the Memoir expansions eliminate the cons that some people have found with this game?

2. Which game seems "dry" to you?

I was planning on getting both games, but after some research, I think it's best for me not to get two games that have the same mechanics. I know that they may play very differently, but I want to have a diverse game collection where I can move from one game to another and not feel like I've done this a few minutes ago.

Thanks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris May
United States
Fort Worth
Texas
flag msg tools
badge
Feeling lucky punk? Well, do ya?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have played both and I think that ancients is much more dry. I prefer the fantasy element in ancients, but I liked Memoir's theme better. I have the eastern front, and terrain pack expansion. Both of them add interesting elements to the game and I like it better. I agree with you about the similar mechanics. I had ancients, battlelore, and memoir, and I feel like they are all to similar. My favorite of the three is Battlelore though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bill
United States
Sayville
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Neither game seems particularly dry to me.

The longer playing time of Ancients is not significant enough to be an issue in my opinion (about 45 minutes for Memoir / 1 hr. for Ancients for me).

The Memoir expansions give it a bit more depth but it still falls short of Ancients in that department.

I agree that you don't need both. I would go with your preferred time period if nothing else jumps out.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Scott Kinsey
United States
Lancaster
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I have all the expansions to M44, CC:A and the first expansion, and Battlelore. By far my favorite of the three systems is CC:A. Far from being dry, I think the system works best in this time frame. The battles are exciting and really seem to capture the style of battle. I like M44, but it always seems rather jarring to me when the game comes to an end (sorry about your Banzai charge there, Pete, but I just took my 6th flag) - for some reason it feels much more acceptable in CC:A. I also think the wooden blocks/colored stickers combo looks great on the table...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Darrell Hanning
United States
Jacksonville
Florida
flag msg tools
badge
We will meet at the Hour of Scampering.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think the whole 3-element, left-and-right-flanks system just makes more sense with C&C:A. To put a finer point on it, I actually don't think the system is appropriate at all, in M'44. The flanks actually make a big difference in terms of unit cohesion in C&C:A, whereas the only purpose it really serves in M'44 is to restrict what options you have for moving and attacking with units.

But a lot of people just don't care for ancients combat, and cute little tanks are always going to catch the eye over wooden blocks.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
Houston
Texas
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I completely agree with BDKWombat and DarrellKH above.

For me, the ancients theme is not only more interesting, but is much better suited to the mechanics.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Kaiser
United States
Aurora
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
dvader123 wrote:
I've been reading about both these games and had a question. If you add some of the expansions to Memoir 44, will you have as deep and rich a game as CC:A?

Adding the expansions to Memoir '44 adds some interesting elements to the game but it doesn't become as good as C&C:A. I prefer playing M44 with one of the expansions over playing without them but overall I prefer C&C:A to any other game in the series.

Quote:
One of the main differences between the two have been that Memoir is faster, "more fun", but not as deep and strategic while CC:A is deeper, more strategic, but slower.

I find all of the games in this series last just about the same length give or take 10-15 minutes. In terms of Memoir 44 being more fun, not sure about that. I find M44 to actually be the least fun. I never get the feeling that I'm fighting out a WWII battle when I play the game. The mechanics of the game just don't fit well with modern combat at all. Ancients, medieval and even Civil War all fit the mechanics of the game well but not modern warfare.

Quote:
1. Does adding the Memoir expansions eliminate the cons that some people have found with this game?

No. Adding the expansions to the game makes the game more interesting but it doesn't make it better than Ancients.

Quote:
2. Which game seems "dry" to you?

Not sure what you mean by dry? None of the games seem dry to me in this series. I find that Ancients and Battlelore seem the most 'realistic' for lack of a better term. I can picture the armies lined up against each other. M44 is the one I just can't picture. Sure you have all the nice figures but their movement around the board just seems to haphazard. In the other games there are rules which support the tactics nicely (the support rules). It just seems there should be something like that in M44, maybe something like a combined arms rule or some thing to give the game a better feel of modern combat.

Quote:
I was planning on getting both games, but after some research, I think it's best for me not to get two games that have the same mechanics. I know that they may play very differently, but I want to have a diverse game collection where I can move from one game to another and not feel like I've done this a few minutes ago.

I definitely wouldn't get them both until you've tried one of the games out. I think Ancients has the best rules and scenarios. If you like the game you can always pick up an expansion for Ancients.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Alan Kaiser
United States
Aurora
Colorado
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DarrellKH wrote:

But a lot of people just don't care for ancients combat, and cute little tanks are always going to catch the eye over wooden blocks.

I forgot about this aspect. Sure tanks are cute but the blocks are actually much more functional. They are easier to setup, move around on the board etc.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Charley Eastman
United States
Franklin
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Neither game is dry.

Memoir is lighter, seems more luck-based to me, while C&C:A seems less so.
My deeply scientific reason for this statement? I often see lesser strategists win Memoir, but rarely so with C&C:A. So much for science.

I just see Ancients as infinitely more expandable across eras as well, moreso than Memoir. I think of Memoir more as a game I use to bring someone in who might eventually be up for C&C:A. In fact, I've done just that a few times now.

As to not owning both? I don't know. They feel different enough to me (and each have distinct purposes in my collection) that I feel good about having both.

I also haven't played BattleLore, but owing to folks' passion when they are describing it, I would at least consider it.

Clear as mud, right? But to answer, I much prefer the depth of C&C:A, and I like the look of it much better than the minis where the infantry tower over the tanks...shake
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Andrew C
United States
San Marcos
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Personally I find Memoir a bit drier than C&C:A. The decisions in Memoir are less complicated and therefore less interesting. In Memoir there are no leaders or line cohesion to worry about.

Also, as others have said, the card mechanic which is artibrary and somewhat non-sensical in a WWII setting, makes perfect sense in an ancients setting.

edit: I personally prefer the blocks over the plastic figures in this game. The color is more important to me than the shape, and blocks allow for many different unit types. Now, if you have the time and talent to paint the mini's, that is a different story.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hunga Dunga
Canada
Oakville
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
CC:A is the more interesting game.

Memoir has nicer toys.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Aaron Silverman
United States
Halfway between Castro and Mickey Mouse
Florida (FL)
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Ken,

If you want to feel like you're playing a wargame that simulates something, go with Ancients. If you think you'll have more fun with the plastic toys, or would like the variety of WWII-style scenarios, then go with Memoir. That's pretty much what it boils down to.

Chrisgmay wrote:
I prefer the fantasy element in ancients, but I liked Memoir's theme better.

WHAT fantasy element in Ancients? Are you confusing it with Battlelore?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hunga Dunga
Canada
Oakville
Ontario
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
generalpf wrote:
Cleitus the Black wrote:
Personally I find Memoir a bit drier than C&C:A. The decisions in Memoir are less complicated and therefore less interesting. In Memoir there are no leaders or line cohesion to worry about.
In C&C:A there are no advantageous positions to worry about because there's barely any terrain. Terrain makes the game in Memoir '44.

They didn't have terrains back then, although they had the technology to build tracks.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pedro
Portugal
Lisbon
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think that both are very interesting games that share the same basic mechanic but feel very different.

C&C: Ancients was my first experience with the system and I fell in love with it immediately. I love the way the mechanics fit ancient warfare. Having to choose which section to move really feels right! The evade and battle back rules make sense, leaders are really important like they should be and the way units can break and just flee from battle is very realistic! Looking at the map with all the blocks standing you can really feel like an ancient general deciding the fate of your troops. In fact, I love the game so much that I'm getting an almost irresistible urge to play it just because I'm writing about it.

Memoir 44 is a very different game. I had dismissed it as the simpler iteration of the system, C&C:Ancients for dummies if you will, and never looked at it again. "Too luck driven" I would say to my friends asking me for advice even though I had never played it. But a friend of mine bought it and out of curiosity I asked him to play it. I was really impressed! Sure, the theme integration is not as organic and the rules are simpler but the gameplay is almost as complex although very different. In Ancients there are a few solid principles which everyone should try to follow: make your formations stick together and use your leaders wisely ; ranged fire is important for skirmishes but the heavies really win the battles ; terrain is almost of no importance unless you are fighting very unique battles like lake whats its name. Use these solid principles in Memoir and you'll be doomed! In memoir terrain is everything! You have to spread your forces and take over the best terrain positions. Fighting is almost exclusively skirmish like. You have to hit and run for cover, because if you stay in the open you'll be doomed. It's great fun!

In the end I thing I still appreciate C&C:Ancients a little bit more, but Memoir was a big, big surprise. Almost as big as Battlelore was a disappointment... but that's for another thread.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls