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Subject: This or Caverna rss

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Stephan Wießler
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Hi together,

I have an eye on Caverna for some time now and my guts say, I would like it more than a Feast for Odin.

I already have Agricola, Le Havre, Fields of Arle and Agricola: ACABS and really like them all. Agricola the most.

Who played Caverna and a Feast for Odin?

Which one do you like more?

And why?
 
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David Larkin
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A feast for Odin. Caaverna is too much like Agricola for me to want it as well. However A Feast for Odin is 50% puzzle rather than game so it depends if you like that sort of thing
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Annemarie Post
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My boyfriend and I own Agricola, and were looking for a new Rosenberg this year. Caverns was the first to go off the list due it's similarities to Agricola. Odin is something entirely different, and we like that, it fills an entirely different niche.
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Stephan Wießler
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Maybe I have to add: I didn't like Patchwork that much and Cottage Garden doesn't interest me.

Is Caverna so similar to Agricola? For me it looks it's a different game with the same machenics (which I really like).

 
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Stephan111 wrote:
Maybe I have to add: I didn't like Patchwork that much and Cottage Garden doesn't interest me.

Is Caverna so similar to Agricola? For me it looks it's a different game with the same machenics (which I really like).


It might help if you tell us why you didn't like Patchwork, why Cottage Garden doesn't interest you, and what mechanics you like in Agricola.

For example, if you hate the idea of fitting shaped tiles together, you should avoid Feast for Odin. If you like the idea of having many different avenues to gain points which are affected by a large number of occupations, while also doing logic puzzle optimization, Feast for Odin is good.
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Oskar Arnason
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Stephan111 wrote:
Maybe I have to add: I didn't like Patchwork that much and Cottage Garden doesn't interest me.

Is Caverna so similar to Agricola? For me it looks it's a different game with the same machenics (which I really like).



To me, Caverna feels like Agricola filtered through All Creatures Big and Small with a hint of Glass Road. It's good, but doesn't quite have the same spark as A Feast for Odin and Agricola.

The puzzle aspect of AFFO is negligible, you gain from keeping it in mind, but doesn't really dictate your game.

So, another vote for Odin
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Stephan Wießler
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In Agricola I like the optimization and the theme.

Patchwork was kind of boring for me. And I think Cootage Garden will even be more boring.

I like Fields of Arle, but prefer Agricola, because it has more tension.

I have the feeling, A Feast for Odin is more a mixture of FoA and Patchwork and Caverna is more like Agricola.

 
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Jan-Willem van Leeuwen
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Just to add my 2 cents:
Caverna seems to be an attempt to popularize Agricola:
- Dwarf theme
- No cards in hand (which made Agricola complex)
- Less tight on food
- More ways to get what you want (explorations, rubies, more actions providing similar things)

A Feast for Odin is most similar to Fields of Arle to me:
- Many options providing similar things
- Food isn't hard but you have to keep an eye on it
- Some stuff that is in very limited supply (exploration boards and houses), like buildings in Fields of Arle.
- Historical setting, with the theme coming through in many details (except some game mechanics, like the spatial puzzle).

Added to this are things from Agricola and Patchwork:
- Occupation cards in hand (although you get some of them during the game instead of all at the start). These make it variable and help dictate your strategy.
- Spatial puzzle aspect of Patchwork (can partly be avoided)

So if you compare Caverna and A Feast for Odin, I suppose that they are actually somewhat similar in how much you have to focus on food, how players interact, and how flexible players are in getting what they want. The main differences are theme (dwarfs vs vikings) and engine building (family growth vs spatial puzzle and occupations).
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Rob van Dalen
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Stephan111 wrote:
Maybe I have to add: I didn't like Patchwork that much and Cottage Garden doesn't interest me.


I was in a similar position. I passionately dislike Patchwork, and I was not too sure about Cottage Garden either (although after a few plays, I must admit I do enjoy it as a light puzzle game. Much better than Patchwork for sure!)

Feast for Odin is an entirely different beast. It's more of a worker placement, less of a puzzle game. It's definitely a bit lighter than Agricola, which is for me really convenient, because I'm not always in the mood for a more restrictive game like Agricola is.
I still like Agricola better, but I'm really glad we own Feast for Odin as well, it's an amazing game
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Magic Pink
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I like Caverna but Odin wins out easily.
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Mathue Faulk
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Stephan111 wrote:
I like Fields of Arle, but prefer Agricola, because it has more tension.

Based on this comment, I'd recommend A Feast for Odin, although haven't played it yet. The biggest difference between Caverna and Agricola is the lowered tension and more open gameplay. The mechanics sure very similar. I always reach for Agricola (or Brewcrafters) first...and so Caverna never sees the table. Just not enough tension for me personally...
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David Larkin
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Stephan111 wrote:
Maybe I have to add: I didn't like Patchwork that much and Cottage Garden doesn't interest me.

Is Caverna so similar to Agricola? For me it looks it's a different game with the same machenics (which I really like).


My top five Uwe games are probably
1. Agricola
2. Le Harve
3. A Feast for Odin
4. Glass Road
5. Bohnanza
6. Ora La Bora
7. Caverna

Not that I think Caverna is a bad game or would be unwilling to play it

I do enjoy patchwork, but have only played the app
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Michael Johnson
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I haven't played A Feast for Odin, but if you have and really enjoy Agricola, I'm not sure purchasing Caverna is your best option. Though I've seen a few people suggest that there is room in a collection for both in other threads... I think in practice you'd generally always reach for one over the other. That is, I've known more than a few people who had both in their collection and eventually sold one or the other because there's too much overlap between the games. Aside from the mini-expansion and the water expansion, it doesn't appear like Caverna is going to be getting any substantial expansion content anytime soon where Agricola has been supported, for whatever that's worth.

On the other hand, if you're getting tired of Agricola, or you thought that you could get Agricola to the table more if it were just less punishing and less restrictive, then maybe you should try to sell/trade Agricola for Caverna and then buy Feast of Odin. Best of both worlds! Ha.
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John Burt
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Stephan111 wrote:
In Agricola I like the optimization and the theme.

Patchwork was kind of boring for me. And I think Cootage Garden will even be more boring.

I like Fields of Arle, but prefer Agricola, because it has more tension.

I have the feeling, A Feast for Odin is more a mixture of FoA and Patchwork and Caverna is more like Agricola.



Caverna plays like Agricola the way Fields of Arle plays like Agricola: in other words, not very much. In fact, in terms of gameplay, Caverna is closer to FoA: it is a low conflict, low stress sandbox.

I own but haven't yet played aFFO. From what I've read and seen on video, this a very unique game, with lots of different things going on, and a deep sandbox feel. Again, this has been compared with FoA for its open strategy feeling.

If you're looking for Agricola-like stress, then neither of these games are likely to satisfy.

 
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Stephan Wießler
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Thanks a lot for all the responses.

I really wanted to buy Caverna. But now I'm not sure. A friend of mine as a Feast for Odin. I'll play that one first before I make a decision.

Caverna has such I high ranking. I wonder a little bit, why so many people in this thread don't favor it.
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Rich P
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Stephan111 wrote:
Thanks a lot for all the responses.

I really wanted to buy Caverna. But now I'm not sure. A friend of mine as a Feast for Odin. I'll play that one first before I make a decision.

Caverna has such I high ranking. I wonder a little bit, why so many people in this thread don't favor it.


Caverna's ranking may be helped by its similarity to Agricola. People who played and hated Agricola are aware that Caverna is "more of the same" (however inaccurate that may be) and stay away so it doesn't pick up those bad ratings.

Personally, I think it's OK but lacks the tension and variability of Agricola. I find it ridiculous that Agricola is currently ranked below it. I've been enjoying Odin hugely - a lot more than Caverna.
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Mathue Faulk
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woodnoggin wrote:

Personally, I think it's OK but lacks the tension and variability of Agricola. I find it ridiculous that Agricola is currently ranked below it. I've been enjoying Odin hugely - a lot more than Caverna.

Very happy to hear that from a fellow "Agricola>>>>Caverna" player. I decided to order Feast based on some good feedback from a trusted friend, but I'm still not 100% sold. Your comment helps me feel a little better about my decision.
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David Larkin
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Stephan111 wrote:


Caverna has such I high ranking. I wonder a little bit, why so many people in this thread don't favor it.


Caverna is a very good game which would out rank many other games in my collection. Just so happens that the designer is a damn good designer who had already produced an even better game which I have already got. As the two games have a few similarities I would rather get something a bit different.
When I go for a meal I really like desserts, that doesn't mean I will eat all desserts though. I prefer to have a starter and main and I will generally pick a starter that is dissimilar from the main. I like a bit of variety
 
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Simon Gosalvez
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Maybe it's cult of the new. Though I haven't played AFFO, I'm sure I will love it (but I liked Patchwork), I love Caverna. You can randomize the buldings available during setup for more variability and replayability. Kinda give you the "hand" in the begining of Agricola, but it's the same for all players, so there's a bit of a race here and adds some tension.

(sorry for bad english)
 
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I would play Caverna over the full Agricola any day - I hate the tension in Agricola (we call it "the misery farming game" for a reason) and having to deal with occupation cards and improvements is just too much for me. Caverna's more relaxed and more fun to play IMO.

I like following the evolution of Uwe's games and I think he's really refined things over the years. Caverna is much more fun for me, and we played Feast for Odin last night and that was great too - didn't feel that similar to Caverna either. It's too soon to say which I prefer, but AFfO has got off to a flying start for me.
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Asgeir Jonsson
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Caverna to me is a streamlined agricola with a dwarf fantasy theme but has less variability then agricola do to absence of cards. Odin is a streamlined multiplayer FoA with influence from his previous games. Personally I think aFfO is a better game, remember also that Caverna is a broken game with a rushed fix that I think wasn't even playtested. But they are diffirent, and it sounds like you are leaning toward Caverna. I think your best solution would be to try both. AFfO is also a bit shorter I think even with 4 players, with much less setup time.
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Philip Morton
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geirinn wrote:
Personally I think aFfO is a better game, remember also that Caverna is a broken game with a rushed fix that I think wasn't even playtested.

I do think I like Feast for Odin more due to the variety of occupations, but I don't think it's fair to imply Caverna is still broken or had a bad fix. The fact that Caverna DOESN'T have hundreds of cards interacting means that targeting the fix on the set of buildings that produced the infinite combo should be pretty foolproof.
 
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Dok Indigo
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Stephan111 wrote:
In Agricola I like the optimization and the theme.

Patchwork was kind of boring for me. And I think Cootage Garden will even be more boring.

I like Fields of Arle, but prefer Agricola, because it has more tension.

I have the feeling, A Feast for Odin is more a mixture of FoA and Patchwork and Caverna is more like Agricola.



Caverna has less tension than Agricola. Also much optimization is possible in A Feast for Odin.
 
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Peter S.
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I'm in the camp of Caverna just being more fun to play than Agricola for being more sandboxy, having more to do, and taking some of the pressure off. Thus, Feast of Odin aside, I wouldn't recommend someone pass on Caverna just because they have Agricola or because Agricola is "better".

(Also, for those who don't mind house rules, there are plenty of ideas for shaking up the "full" building set, such as letting each player call dibs on one building or veto one building. There's also a nifty fan-made race pack for shaking up strategies, here: Fan expansion: Caverna Race Packs.)
 
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Rollo Tomosi
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Didn't like Patchwork? I think that's a venial sin.

Stephan111 wrote:
Maybe I have to add: I didn't like Patchwork that much and Cottage Garden doesn't interest me.

Is Caverna so similar to Agricola? For me it looks it's a different game with the same machenics (which I really like).

 
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