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Star Wars: Destiny» Forums » Rules

Subject: Simultaneous Triggered Abilities and a Nested Queue rss

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Raf Cordero
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Relevant quotes from the Rules Reference Guide:

Quote:
QUEUE
After abilities enter an imaginary line once they meet their
trigger conditions, known as the queue. They wait in the
queue until the trigger condition is complete. If the trigger
condition was part of another ability, that entire ability is
completed before the after ability resolves. Abilities in the
queue are resolved in the order they entered it. Each one
must fully resolve before the next one resolves. If, during the
resolution of an ability in the queue, another ability is added,
it moves to “the end” of the queue and is resolved last.

• Abilities enter and leave the queue in chronological order,
based on a “first in, first out” principle.
• If two or more abilities have the same trigger condition, the
player who controls the battlefield decides the order they
enter the queue.


My question is really: What happens when an ability triggers both Before and After abilities, and the resolution of the Before ability triggers its own set of After Abilities.

Hypothetical example:

Player goes to put shields on Qui-Gon. Qui-Gon has his "Before you place shields..." ability and another character has a hypothetical "After you place shields on a character, discard a card." ability.

Qui-Gon's ability deals damage to a character that has an "After this character takes damage, reroll a die".

Does that reroll enter "The Queue" to be resolved after shields are placed on QuiGon? Or are things nested such that the reroll would occur immediately after taking damage, and then you would place shields on Qui Gon, and only then resolve by the Discard Card ability?
 
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Matthew McFarland
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Looking at the whole thing, Qui-Gon resolves his entire ability first, since it's a Before ability and "the entire ability is resolved before the after ability resolves." After that, I'd say that "After this character takes damage..." entered the queue first, since Before abilities can interrupt the flow of game, then the "After you place shields on a character..." ability enters the queue when the shields are placed.
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Raf Cordero
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Ok thanks. That would be the most intuitive and was my hope.

Follow up based on the last line in the rules paragraph. An ability triggers After Abilities 1, 2, and 3. The resolution of After Ability 1 creates a new After Ability. This does NOT occur immediately, but enters the queue effectively as After Ability 4?
 
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Matthew McFarland
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captainraffi wrote:
Follow up based on the last line in the rules paragraph. An ability triggers After Abilities 1, 2, and 3. The resolution of After Ability 1 creates a new After Ability. This does NOT occur immediately, but enters the queue effectively as After Ability 4?


Yup.
 
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Raf Cordero
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Oof. Less intuitive. So Befores always interrupt, Afters enter a global queue and may not occur immediately after the event that triggered them.
 
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Evgeni Marinov
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IMO, the rules aren't at all clear on what happens when an After ability triggers off of a Before ability - I can argue that in this case the Before ability creates its own Queue for the After ability (or abilities), and that all of those will resolve before the original effect does.

There are two other things regarding abilities that are also bugging me:
- Are triggered abilities mandatory? Yes, because:
Rules reference wrote:
When a triggered ability meets its trigger condition, the ability resolves.
but then there is:
Rules reference wrote:
A trigger condition indicates the timing point at which an ability may be used [...]
(emphasis mine)?

- Since none of the ability types can be associated with Events, how can effects from Events be considered abilities? (We know they are abilities, because: "An ability from an event is resolved when that event is played.")
 
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Raf Cordero
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vega777 wrote:
IMO, the rules aren't at all clear on what happens when an After ability triggers off of a Before ability - I can argue that in this case the Before ability creates its own Queue for the After ability (or abilities), and that all of those will resolve before the original effect does.


Yeah this is the crux of my question. Is there 1 Global Queue or can there be multiple Queues.


Rules reference wrote:
A trigger condition indicates the timing point at which an ability may be used [...]
(emphasis mine)?[/q]

I don't think "May" is being used here to provide an option. It's being used in the permissive sense. "This is the only play you mayare allowed to use triggered abilities".
 
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Matthew McFarland
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The rules are 100% clear on After abilities triggering off Before abilities. "If the trigger condition was part of another ability, that entire ability is completed before the after ability resolves. Abilities in the queue are resolved in the order they entered it." There's no reason to add unnecessary complications by injecting rules that don't exist, like multiple queues.

Technically speaking, an After ability always goes in the queue, but most of the time there's nothing else in front of it so it resolves inmediately.
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Evgeni Marinov
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Eyefink wrote:
The rules are 100% clear on After abilities triggering off Before abilities. "If the trigger condition was part of another ability, that entire ability is completed before the after ability resolves. Abilities in the queue are resolved in the order they entered it." There's no reason to add unnecessary complications by injecting rules that don't exist, like multiple queues. [...]


The part of the rules text you've quoted simply says that the After ability won't interrupt the effects of the ability that triggered it, not the whole sequence of [Before ability -> original effect] (the original effect is not in a Queue). I'm not trying to "add unnecessary complications", I'm interpreting the rules as written.
 
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Matthew McFarland
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vega777 wrote:
The part of the rules text you've quoted simply says that the After ability won't interrupt the effects of the ability that triggered it, not the whole sequence of [Before ability -> original effect] (the original effect is not in a Queue). I'm not trying to "add unnecessary complications", I'm interpreting the rules as written.


I think I get what you're asking. Would an After ability who's triggering condition was met by a Before ability resolve before that (Before) ability's triggering action does?

I should think yes, but you're right that it doesn't spell that out word for word. There's only one queue, and as soon as the After ability's trigger is met it's added to it. Once the Before ability finishes resolving, anything in the queue fires off, then it goes back to the original triggering event.
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Evgeni Marinov
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Eyefink wrote:
vega777 wrote:
The part of the rules text you've quoted simply says that the After ability won't interrupt the effects of the ability that triggered it, not the whole sequence of [Before ability -> original effect] (the original effect is not in a Queue). I'm not trying to "add unnecessary complications", I'm interpreting the rules as written.


I think I get what you're asking. Would an After ability who's triggering condition was met by a Before ability resolve before that (Before) ability's triggering action does?

I should think yes, but you're right that it doesn't spell that out word for word. There's only one queue, and as soon as the After ability's trigger is met it's added to it. Once the Before ability finishes resolving, anything in the queue fires off, then it goes back to the original triggering event.


Yes, that was the question. I contacted FFG and this was the reply from Lukas: "I am collecting questions that are not directly answered in the Rules Reference now and will answer them once the game is released." So, soon we'll have a definitive answer
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