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Subject: Custom scenarios - here's what we need rss

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Pete Wyse
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I love this game, me and the good lady are having a LOT of fun playing it, and have even started dabbling in some custom scenarios. Here's the thing... without thoroughly playtesting every scenario there's no way to balance them. This is usually not an issue for co-op games, but Conan isn't co-op.

I have a solution, one that I hope the designer's will look into, or someone better than I in the community. Points.

Assign a points cost to everything, then you can build Hero teams and Scenarios using said points. The overlord buys his minions and spells, the heroes buy their heroes and starting equipment / spells. Hell, you could even allocate a points cost to the objective.

Kill the main dude - 10 points.

Kill the main dude, rescue the princess, and punch a camel - 40 points.

Just an idea, and one that I may look into sometime in the future. I just figured the community would already be looking into this, or be a lot better at doing it, than I would.
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Shawn Garbett
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petewys3 wrote:
Assign a points cost to everything, then you can build Hero teams and Scenarios using said points. The overlord buys his minions and spells, the heroes buy their heroes and starting equipment / spells.


Points systems are fairly problematic. They have the assumption of being generally additive. This is usually not true as there may be two items together that are worth far more together than separately. Or a creature may have a unique weakness to an item that is not worth much in any other situation. There could be many factors and interactions between them, that to create an additive point system it falls apart in very unbalanced ways.

I've owned several games over the years that started with points systems, that by the 2nd edition they got quietly dropped. I tried to create one once for a game, by running millions of simulations of different combinations and evaluating their relative strengths and then doing a least squares fit. Then in practice, folks quickly figured out the synergies and the whole effort fell apart.

The question is does Conan have this effect or are the pieces fairly independent. There's reports of switching equipment having major effects on scenarios. I suspect there are interactions that a point system can't account for hidden throughout Conan.

It would be so much easier if a point system could work. I like the idea.
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Stephan Beal
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petewys3 wrote:
I have a solution, one that I hope the designer's will look into, or someone better than I in the community. Points.


Then you'll be right at home over in thread 1652296.

As mentioned already: points are problematic in Conan (i will go so far as to say impossible) because the real value of (e.g.) any given skill depends on other variables, the values of which depend on other variables, etc., etc.

Try creating a custom scenario of your own and i'll think you'll quickly find that subtle changes can have non-subtle effects on the balance.
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Pete Wyse
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CyberGarp wrote:
The question is does Conan have this effect or are the pieces fairly independent. There's reports of switching equipment having major effects on scenarios. I suspect there are interactions that a point system can't account for hidden throughout Conan.

It would be so much easier if a point system could work. I like the idea.


Oh I agree, this would not be a sure fire fix to balance the game 100%, but I think it could be a step in the right direction - or at the very least, would be useful for the scenario itself. Maybe assign a point cost to the heroes, but not the items / spells. Then either assign a scenario specific item to one of the heroes, or randomly seed them into the "chests" for better equipment?

Currently, we give each hero a basic item that they have on the model, then shuffle 5 items and 1 blank per hero into a deck, from which each player draws 2 more cards.
 
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Pete Wyse
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sgbeal wrote:
Then you'll be right at home over in thread 1652296.


Oh that's interesting.

Yeah I've created a couple of scenarios, and balancing is not easy to achieve. I know the devs wanted to go for the HeroQuest community style of game, and to a certain degree they succeeded. I just feel the game is slightly more complex, which is fine, but that added complexity is what's making scenario creation more difficult.

We'll get there, and enough people are talking about it that I think something official will be released. Eventually.

Maybe with the app?
 
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