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Perdition's Mouth: Abyssal Rift» Forums » Rules

Subject: Guards - movement rss

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Sebastian Beck
Germany
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Hey all.

The movement of the guards is a little difficult at times. According to the rules they try to stay away within their range of 3.

Look at the following image.

Some guards are equally distant to the closest (all?) heroes. Would the guards move into the room to be able to attack all or would they stay outside the room?

 
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Ruymán
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Hi,

when solving this kind of situations, the only really important thing to remember is that you still activate enemies one by one, following closest to farthest rule. Then, whether they enter or not depends on who they are after and which paths are available at the moment they activate.

Assuming no other effects are in play and Heroes are at starting health, in this case Guard #4 is at range 3 of any hero, while all others are at range #2, so he will act last.

Now, with the remaining three, rule in page 26 says:

Quote:
If enemies of the same type are at the same distance from a hero, then the players choose which to move first.

You then activate them one by one, and determine his movement priority according to rules in page 27.

Quote:
Movement priorities: Closest hero > Weakest hero (least )

Let's say, for the sake of the example, we activate them in order 1, 2, 3:

- Guard 1: Target hero is player's choice between Neshilim and Tyra, as they are both closest and weakest. Whatever you choose, the guard is already at maximum range of them (he cannot reach any range 3 square), so he doesn't move.
- Guard 2: Target hero is Niffil (closest, then weakest). There is a square at range 3 to comfortably shoot at him, next to guard #1. So the guard moves to M10, entering the room.
- Guard 3: Closest hero is Neshilim. He moves the shortest path to range 3 of him, so that's one square towards the table in the middle J10, shooting from distance through the door without entering the room.
- Guard 4: Target hero is again player's choice between Neshilim and Tyra. However, he only has 3 Action Points so he stops at the square with the rubble in K10.

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Sebastian Beck
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Thank you.

Guard 2: Why is Niffil the closest hero? The movement costs are the same to every one, aren´t they?

Guard 3: The same. How do you count that?

Greetings.

Sebastian
 
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David Hladky
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The range for determining how far can a figure shoot is calculated differently than how it can go. Range 3 is calculated as "walking with diagonal movement enabled ignoring difficult terrain". This is the distance, where the guards want to go. Only guard #4 is in that range.

However the closest hero is calculated as the hero, that can be reached using the least AP (considering also difficult terain). The guard is fairly stupid. Once his target unit is acquired, he chooses where to go by considering only its target figure. So if you are clever, he can walk towards another hero.
 
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Sebastian Beck
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True. But my Problem is the we Talk about the movement of the Monsters. And as far as the rules are written, you Do not take diagonal movement into Account when defining Who is the closest hero.

And the "stay in range of 3" - rule makes it somewhat difficult in some situations.
 
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Artur Baginski
Germany
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Regarding Guard 2, that's how my interpretation goes:

With his 3 movement points, there are exactly 2 spots he can fully reach in this one movement phase, where he is in range 3 to a hero.

1) the spot he is already in
2) the spot Ruymán mentioned

So there are 2 spots which satisfy the "closest" priority. Why both? Because he can reach both space in just this movement.

He then decides to go to the spot 2, because the next priority "weakest hero" is then satisfied.


Right?
 
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Timo Multamäki
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Johnny_Bravo wrote:
Regarding Guard 2, that's how my interpretation goes:

With his 3 movement points, there are exactly 2 spots he can fully reach in this one movement phase, where he is in range 3 to a hero.

1) the spot he is already in
2) the spot Ruymán mentioned

So there are 2 spots which satisfy the "closest" priority. Why both? Because he can reach both space in just this movement.

He then decides to go to the spot 2, because the next priority "weakest hero" is then satisfied.


Right?


Indeed. You're right. And when there are more than one that satisfy the same criteria, then it's up to players. And you SHOULD play enemies movements so that it's according to rules but as positive to your heroes as possible. You should not feel that you're cheating if you play according to rules, but in such a manner that is optimal to your heroes.

As the designer of this mechanic, I can assure you that you need this mindset to complete the campaign.
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Sebastian Beck
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I know. When playing this as hard as you can, our group was totally ripped in half.

When moving to the closest hero - you only count squares in a movement manner, right? So you do not count diagonal spaces, right?

Or do you take into account while moving, that the guard can shoot so that you determine the range (diagonal inlcuded) while moving?
 
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Artur Baginski
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I would see this as two different steps:

1) Determining the best "shooting spots" (decided by los & range)
2) Which one to go to (decided by movement cost, or maybe rather "amount of movement phases the enemy would need to get there", so a spot in the same spot, 1, 2 or 3 movement points away would be all the same for a guard. If there is more than one spot available with the same lowest number of movement phases needed to get there, the next priority kicks in and so on

 
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Sebastian Beck
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Kjaha wrote:

Assuming no other effects are in play and Heroes are at starting health, in this case Guard #4 is at range 3 of any hero, while all others are at range #2, so he will act last.


To make it more simple. When you check who is farthest and who is closest - do you count diagonal paths or paths according to the movement rule (no diagonals)?

According to the upper quote it seems that you count it in a range manner (like you do in combat). Otherwise guard 4 is 4 spaces away, not 3. Right?
 
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David Hladky
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My understanding was:
- the target hero of an enemy is the one calculated the "movement way" = without diagonal movement
- when calculating where this specific guard wants to go you calculate range 3 from the target hero (including diagonal and ignoring difficult terrain) to determine the square, where the enemy wants to go to be able to shoot darts from the maximum distance. You need to consider the visibility as well.
 
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