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Subject: Seafall for casuals rss

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S L
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I currently have a group with typical non gamers (my wife, and her parents) and we're playing Pandemic Legacy and all enjoying it. My plan was to play Seafall next, but am not sure around how well it will work for my group.

Does anyone have any experience or comments with casual type players for Seafall?

Thanks!
 
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Frank Pelkofer
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I think it depends a lot on how much they care about being 40 points behind the leader after a few games. If the game experience is still going to be fun for them in that circumstance, then go for it. Otherwise, stay away.
 
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Tilou
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I think Pandemic Legacy and Seafall are radically different beasts. Seafall doesn't strike me as non gamer friendly.
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Casual Tryhard
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I think with some care on your part, you could all have a great time. It's true that casual gamers are more likely to fall behind in points over the campaign, but they may also be less frustrated by Seafall's resistance to planning.

If you don't mind patronizing the family a little, it should be pretty easy for a stronger player to ensure that everyone gets an opportunity to do cool stuff and participate in the story.

Edited to say: The above sounds like faint praise. I should add that Seafall has a lot of charm and a lot of really neat new ideas -- it's absolutely worth a try for any group.

As shipped it also has a lot of problems with balance and pacing -- but I genuinely think that people playing for story and fun will be less put off by those than gamers playing to win.

Do get those milestone boxes open soon, though! I can see non-gamers becoming bored by the somewhat directionless early games.
 
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Jeff M
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I STRONGLY recommend watching the video reviews of this game to see if it is for you and your "group".
In particular, The Dice Tower's reviews/last review, Shut Up and Sit Down's review, and "All The Games You Like Are Bad" review.

The group of people I usually play with are light to medium gamers. From what I have seen, there is no way SeaFall would work with me or my group.
 
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Tilou
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Lowden025 wrote:
I STRONGLY recommend watching the video reviews of this game to see if it is for you and your "group".
In particular, The Dice Tower's reviews/last review, Shut Up and Sit Down's review, and "All The Games You Like Are Bad" review.


There are also positive reviews which are worth taking a look at.
 
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Jeff M
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tilouboy wrote:
Lowden025 wrote:
I STRONGLY recommend watching the video reviews of this game to see if it is for you and your "group".
In particular, The Dice Tower's reviews/last review, Shut Up and Sit Down's review, and "All The Games You Like Are Bad" review.


There are also positive reviews which are worth taking a look at.


Could you please link me to them?

The only video reviews I have seen were either "Unboxing" videos, game conference "here is a new game" type of reviews, reviews posted after playing just the prologue/ a couple of games, or very lacking in in depth look at overall game mechanics/ breakdown of game plusses and minuses.
 
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Tilou
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Lowden025 wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
Lowden025 wrote:
I STRONGLY recommend watching the video reviews of this game to see if it is for you and your "group".
In particular, The Dice Tower's reviews/last review, Shut Up and Sit Down's review, and "All The Games You Like Are Bad" review.


There are also positive reviews which are worth taking a look at.


Could you please link me to them?

The only video reviews I have seen were either "Unboxing" videos, game conference "here is a new game" type of reviews, reviews posted after playing just the prologue/ a couple of games, or very lacking in in depth look at overall game mechanics/ breakdown of game plusses and minuses.


The first two video-reviews you cite are from players who have not played the whole campaign.

Here is a review from someone who played a good number of games:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1633892/early-impressions-f...

Another in 2 parts (prologue + 4 games):
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1628128/seafall-spoiler-fre...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1649785/spoiler-free-update...
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Jeff M
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tilouboy wrote:
Lowden025 wrote:
tilouboy wrote:
Lowden025 wrote:
I STRONGLY recommend watching the video reviews of this game to see if it is for you and your "group".
In particular, The Dice Tower's reviews/last review, Shut Up and Sit Down's review, and "All The Games You Like Are Bad" review.


There are also positive reviews which are worth taking a look at.


Could you please link me to them?

The only video reviews I have seen were either "Unboxing" videos, game conference "here is a new game" type of reviews, reviews posted after playing just the prologue/ a couple of games, or very lacking in in depth look at overall game mechanics/ breakdown of game plusses and minuses.


The first two video-reviews you cite are from players who have not played the whole campaign.

Here is a review from someone who played a good number of games:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1633892/early-impressions-f...

Another in 2 parts (prologue + 4 games):
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1628128/seafall-spoiler-fre...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1649785/spoiler-free-update...


I am familiar with both, and took them into consideration when deciding whether the game was for me or not.

Can you link me to some video reviews? I find them much more helpful.
 
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Tilou
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Lowden025 wrote:


Can you link me to some video reviews? I find them much more helpful.


Helas no. I understand some might prefer videos, but, especially for this game, I don't see videos as more helpful than a good text.
And I didn't find the dice Tower or the SUSD reviews any better than the written ones I linked here. They just happen to be famous around here and entertaining.
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Jeff M
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tilouboy wrote:
Lowden025 wrote:


Can you link me to some video reviews? I find them much more helpful.


Helas no. I understand some might prefer videos, but, especially for this game, I don't see videos as more helpful than a good text.
And I didn't find the dice Tower or the SUSD reviews any better than the written ones I linked here. They just happen to be famous around here and entertaining.


I find I am the opposite.
I tend to not find written reviews very helpful..unless they are by someone I am very familiar with, while I find video reviews by reviewers I am familiar with, and/or explain their reasoning well to be much more helpful.

As this side discussion relates to the original posters question....find what kind of reviews work for you. There are several of them out there for SeaFall.
 
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Tilou
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Another positive (written) review which talks about the negative reviews just popped up:
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1667143/spoiler-free-meta-r...
 
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Ben Martell
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lsdza wrote:
I currently have a group with typical non gamers (my wife, and her parents) and we're playing Pandemic Legacy and all enjoying it. My plan was to play Seafall next, but am not sure around how well it will work for my group.

Does anyone have any experience or comments with casual type players for Seafall?

Thanks!


My group is casual and we are enjoying it. It includes a (savvy) 13 year old, too, if that's helpful.

I had a pool to pick from. One person (who is 14) found it too slow so they were replaced after the prologue. Otherwise, everyone is really enjoying it.

I actually think the game is probably going to be enjoyed far more by casuals on average than others, contrary to what others are saying. All the biggest criticisms of the game seem to be 'gamer pet peeves' to me. They just need to be casuals with at least a passing history of playing games more complex than Monopoly. We really weren't playing much that was more complex than Ticket to Ride before legacy games came along.

The one thing to note is that the rules are a big step up for casuals. I read them twice carefully, I looked up clarifications, I explained them for the prologue, then I went back and read them again, found all the things we did wrong, and explained the rules again to everyone before game 1 including all the things we did wrong.

The most challenging thing, for me, was explaining enmity (and understanding how much of it to give away). And we still need to dive back in to clarify things often.

It takes about half an hour to set up and 3 hours to play each game, with 5 players. Allow 4 hours per game, I would say.
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Becq Starforged
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The one bit of advice I'd give is this: absolutely, positively, DON'T buy this game because you loved Pandemic Legacy. There is virtually nothing similar between the two games except that both have cubes as components.

Pandemic Legacy is a cooperative, light-to-medium weight Euro game with moderate play times and no commitment by the players.
SeaFall is a very competitive (with significant PvP), heavy weight non-Euro game with long play times and relies on a fairly committed group of players.

I have little interest in Pandemic Legacy, but I'm enjoying SeaFall.

I suggest looking at game play descriptions (Watch it Played has a good video) and decide if it's your kind of game.
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Ecosmith Ecosmith
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benmartell wrote:


I actually think the game is probably going to be enjoyed far more by casuals on average than others, contrary to what others are saying. All the biggest criticisms of the game seem to be 'gamer pet peeves' to me. They just need to be casuals with at least a passing history of playing games more complex than Monopoly. We really weren't playing much that was more complex than Ticket to Ride before legacy games came along.


Seeing this makes me quite optimistic, I must say. For me, I'm not hugely obsessed with winning, as much as wanting entertsining things to happen.

I love Archipelago but I've never won a game, lol, and that's fine

Eco
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Matt Random
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Both my groups have the most fun when they are being non-competitive and just trying to complete the fun objectives and read and enjoy the lore of the game. I think this game will be great for casuals, you can mostly agree to not attack each other.
Minor milestone spoiler?:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
It's only necessary for a single milestone. Note that this way of playing would not make raid a useless stat.
 
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Eric Martin
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I'm playing it with a group of gamers whose company I quite enjoy. Otherwise I would have quit weeks ago. The rules are way too cluttered and I am still looking at the rulebook every 20 minutes to remind myself how to properly do an action that I hadn't done for 3 games.

Part of the problem is rules keep getting added too fast and furious to an already dense and annoying ruleset. And then you don't bother using them for 2 games and all of a sudden need to. I think this makes Pandemic Legacy feel like Candyland.

I'd say this game is only for people who really like unnecessary complexity and arguing over rules. I don't really. But I'm enjoying the experience with the people I'm with.
 
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Ian Liddle
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e9martin wrote:
I'm playing it with a group of gamers whose company I quite enjoy. Otherwise I would have quit weeks ago. The rules are way too cluttered and I am still looking at the rulebook every 20 minutes to remind myself how to properly do an action that I hadn't done for 3 games.

Part of the problem is rules keep getting added too fast and furious to an already dense and annoying ruleset. And then you don't bother using them for 2 games and all of a sudden need to. I think this makes Pandemic Legacy feel like Candyland.

I'd say this game is only for people who really like unnecessary complexity and arguing over rules. I don't really. But I'm enjoying the experience with the people I'm with.



It definitely helps to play with a more laid back group: we've been adjudicating rule ambiguity with quick democratic house-rulings, and it's made play a lot less stressful / more streamlined. And fair, as we occasionally retcon egregious misplays.
 
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