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Human Interface: Nakamura Tower» Forums » Rules

Subject: Lots of questions for almost every phase: rss

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Nikolai Tsekov
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The rules are a mess. I tried the game with another player, among us two we played like almost every major title from the last 5 years and we are Infinity, Warmahordes, AoS, Malifaux, Magic and what not players. I often whine about dodgy rules in Infinity, but HINT is a whole new level!

1. Virus/Worm Infection and CS Test Phase:
- way too many words for a simple test that affect everyone in a Tactical Network that has enemy Worm or Virus in it.
- does all characters take a test for each Virus/Worm in their network? If they have two of these, do they make two tests?
- if the Worm/Virus has some effect with a target (like minus 2 AP, which is ridiculously high penalty, I will elaborate later), are they reapplied (meaning new targets can be chosen) or they continue working on the character the opponent chooses when the Worm/Virus enters the TN?

2. Check System Resources Phase
- There is something about face down cards and SR cost, I really failed to see the point we can actually leave any cards face down. More about that - later.
- I take it this is the "upkeep" phase and we generate SR and then pay for the running programs, including enemy Worms/Viruses. Makes it almost impossible for a team w/o good hacker to do anything later in the turn, even if they win initiative by chance, as any worm will drain them to bottom in the early missions (like mission 2, Tomo can put two viruses/worms in the enemy TN w/o breaking a sweat, given he has 9 TN against the enemy 3 or something in the line.
- can we discard cards for Ubermensch ability to gain SR at this point?

3. CW Phase. Man, this is a mess. I'll describe how we played it, please correct me if I'm wrong, but we just houserulled anything that sounded unclear, which is basically most of it.
a) we draw up to 5 (or more if there is a modifier) - minus any running cards in the TN and in our hands.
b) we place cards in TN slots
c) we use SR boosters (problem 1 - they take up space)
d) we use Sniffers (problem 2 - they take up space)
e) we start with hacker that has initiative and his first offensive card (problem 3, we reveal boosters now, as I really fail to see when)
-- so far we follow the routine a card in empty slot. It doesn't make sense!
f) we go back to the example, decide to mix it with the rules as the part that we reveal simultaneously is obviously a mistake) and start anew placing cards on top of each other (if we want to). when we get to e), we reveal offensive programme together with any cards that boosts it. The defending player does the same for his defensive cards (problem 4, after turn 1, the Nakamura team in Mission 2 just didn't had any resources, so they can do anything! Winning initiative they can purge the worm, but they don't have resources for defensive program, so the virus stays, and then Tomo puts another in their TN, sealing any effort of their 5 mental skill hacker...
g) we are swearing by game developers now. Couldn't you just write it down as it has to be played?

3. Skipping to the real world phase
Few turns passed, I'm moving Tomo and his last movement enters a square in LoS of a Drone with some really big gun. Tomo tries to Dodge, but Dodge is Speed test, so it's 4+3 +2 CanDo vs. 4-3 +2 from card (we are applying it because we are unsure if it works on FastAttack, it's a Ranged Attack, so..)+7 CanDo... he's injured, all stats down to the point he cannot stand a Drone anymore. Why it is not a Ranged Attack for Tomo vs. Fast Attack? Or maybe I played too much Infinity...

Skipping few turns ahead, Shoko enters, and he gets -2 AP right away from some Worm.

I still have Harvey, so I dodge like mad, buy AP for him (note, I cannot use it to move if I attack!, quite oversight).



I don't want to explain everything we did. Too long, too much flipping around the book. The book is like early beta, and you can try the ending sentence on p. 22, for example.


Guys, I love the ideas and mechanics, and the art, and the setting, and... actually everything but the rules! Please just give it to a pair of players and ask them to play a game w/o any clues from you. Night impossible! shake

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Manu
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Funny, I just gave up attempting to play the intro scenario for the same reason: head exploded trying to make any sense of the rules.

It is a hell of a mess. The game might be great behind it all, but would need a complete rules re-write.

Will give another shot tomorrow with a clear head. I think that with the help of the example I might be able to cobble my own rules for cyberwarfare.

edit: just looking through the FAQ 1.1.... some good clarifications there, but I suspect we're not out of the woods yet.
 
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Rafal Baginski
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Hi guys,

We understand your point of view. If you have any sugestion how to rearrange existing rules will be great. Examples at the end of the book or just under the rule, less stories more bullets and so on. FAQ is good enough but not perfect we know that.

Come back later with some explanation.

Cheers
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daman whodaman
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hintthegame wrote:
Hi guys,

We understand your point of view. If you have any sugestion how to rearrange existing rules will be great. Examples at the end of the book or just under the rule, less stories more bullets and so on. FAQ is good enough but not perfect we know that.

Come back later with some explanation.

Cheers


Make a tutorial video from someone or yourself explaining things be great so can actually start playing... Or rewrite the rules in more detail like from play to play

Seriously looks like a good game but cant do much with it for now
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Nikolai Tsekov
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Truth is we need less words and more structured rules. If you have numbers on each Phase steps and then bullets on everything that happens in a step, and provided there are no some huge rule gaps, we will have a clean and easy to navigate rulebook, that you can only make better with an index at the end of the book.

As another player here said - the only right answer for you is that you are working on a new book. The game is kind of expensive, I paid £154.50 for the game, which makes it one of the more expensive games on the market.

Like - what happens to my offense program if I fail to break Hacker's defense? Not in the CW rules, so I either have to search (and I didn't find), or just accept some common sense rule.

Or do drones go through doors a (mentioned in Doors rules, not much point to be there as it's a Drone rule) and when do they close behind them (EoT or immediately).

Or if a Character can only open a door with a Terminal (there is some advanced rule for breaking doors, but it's so much chance based to the point it never happened in our game!), how can the team that is already being in the receiving end of a bad Virus able to ever open a door protected by a deck that has much more strength than the player decks?

Or - there is Intermission Phase mentioned few times and... no such phase anywhere to be found.
Setup:
- Items explained. Costs explained.
- Character sheets explained. The CS level on the sheet reflects starting items and skills. Should be clearly mentioned under it's own bullet.
- Equipping an item or chip explained. Choosing items order explained (who picks first? There are too few Commercial cards anyway).
- Items that don't go to slots explained. How many per player?



This is what I'd do:

1. Virus/Worm Phase:
- CS tests explained and example is given here.

2. SR Phase:
- SR math explained, example is given here.
- SR upkeeps (Virus/Worm, running programs) explained with example.


3. Initiative
- Keep the rule, move the black box, this is a box for the previous phase!

4. CW Phase:
Broken to sub-phases/steps, clearly separated, preferably numbered.
- Draw cards (minus cards on TN, minus cards in hand)
- Purge option should be here. Given it's for the side that is already losing, IMO this option should have some lower overall value and be easier for the hackers, they are owners of their networks, doesn't make sense to be so hard resetting it! Either just make it mental vs. offense CanDo test, which is mostly favorable for the hacker, unless Viruses/Worms don't come with attached boosters. The better the hacker, the easier to purge. The reason I'd put it here is that losing side has disadvantage for Initiative so the winning side can put another Virus/Worm while they would have no way to defend.
- Plan and pay down cards (can go face down in every slot, for example when you choose SR booster or sniffer it triggers earlier so you can use another program on top of it later)
- Clearly state 1 booster per program, no duplicates - WHY? I'd use one against a terminal then another vs. another player's TN!? Isn't it more sensible to have a rule for no duplicates in another player's or terminal network?
- Start with revealing SR boosters, paying cost, gaining the effect.
- Reveal sniffers, pay costs, gain effects.
- Attacker reveals Offensive program and booster for it, paying Install SR costs
- Defender reveals defensive cards and boosters for them, paying Install costs. Terminal reveals everything, no costs. (IMO, after looking through the AI deck, this is a bit OP, so I'd rule up to the first offensive program revealed and as many defense opened, but I may have limited PoV because early game).
- CW battle, modifiers explained (-3 vs. player's TN, -3 vs. remote terminal, 0 vs. adjacent terminal), Math explained with Virus/Worm vs. ICE/Bastion/etc.
- Repeat for every other defending card if the Attacker wins.
- Repeat for any other offensive card the Attacker has (may be against different target). The limitation regarding same program should be transferred to "per opponent/terminal"
- Losing side effects explained (do we loose offensive programs? I guess no. Do Viruses/Worms with attached booster lose it upon moving to target TN or Terminal? Sounds great. Do we loose broken defense? Yes). Effects applied (IMO - once and forever, no changing targets later).
- Infecting other player's TN or Terminal explained. Do Player Worms/Viruses in a Terminal attack other players (Cool option, why not!).
- Defending player turns into Attacker. Start with revealing offensive cards and another CW battle.

I'd leave any cards not revealed as they are, no costs attached.

5. RW Phase:
Most of the stuff here sounds (mostly) OK with few exceptions:
- for the active player Ranged Attack should be equal to FastAttack. Means if he's moving he can make a Ranged Attack Action against Fast Attacks interrupting his movement. Makes much more sense than having to Dodge your way into position and THEN attack, which sometimes leads to what happened to use - character weakened and unable to beat his target, because of bad Dodge CanDo draw.
- Drone's Chain Gun is too good to be true in the first missions. I get it they are easy to break with their 1 wound, but +2 on Ranged Attack and the fact they respawn each AI phase makes it a bit too much.
- The Doors rule IMO is unfitting, once closed, a losing team with their hacker gone would be unable to exit a room if they don't draw 8/9+ CanDo card!
- Why not move after Attack? This makes the +1 AP skill of the Ubermensch a bit useless, they can only use it to Move/Dodge on the way or as last action Attack.

6. AI
Mostly clear, except for the door problem - after they enter through a door, is it locked immediately or in the Clean Up?

7. Clean Up.
No changes needed.
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Frank Washburn
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Also, nowhere in the book does it describe how to handle "Inter-mission phase."

When can we use the other AI Forms? Are they all substitutable for the AI Avatar? They are not listed as viable candidates for any of the scenarios.

I am still waiting/searching for a definitive answer on how Dodge-reflex as an Active model works/ whether it has any cost. Is there any reason why, if you walked in front of someone who Fast-Attacked you, you would NOT dodge-reflex?

If you can, regardless of success or failure of the Dodge-reflex, continue your movement action and take another movement action (if available), then it seems not only like a no brainer, but also severely weakens the possibility of a Fast Attack ever actually being successful. (Fast Attack is -3 to Physical, Dodge is +3).

If a Dodge-reflex consumes one of your Active-turn actions, or at least stops your movement for that single action, then that seems like an appropriate "cost" to executing a Dodge.
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