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Subject: When demagogues fail rss

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R. Frazier
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Everyone here who is either "pro trump" or "well he's better than Hillary because I drink the Kool-Aid and ignore what he says" which is effectively pro-trump - I want to make sure you understand that him saying a bunch of horseshit and making a bunch of promises that he can't and won't (and knows he can't and won't) keep about "making America great again" and "bringing jobs back to the US" etc., etc. is not the end game.

He has risen to power on a tide of empty promises. Yes, most politicians make promises and either can or do only keep some of them, but demagogues are different, and Trump is different.

When he can't keep a promise, he won't be like GB senior or Obama and simply face his failures, he'll immediately start looking for someone to blame. He's already blaming the "lying media" for any negative press he gets and accusing anyone he disagrees with politically of being a criminal.

What do you think happens when Congress blocks him on something? Do you think he'll do what Obama does, take it as part of the system of checks and balances and move on? No. That's not what's going to happen. A person like trump will absolutely move to defcon 1 immediately. Jail, accusation, threats, "the nuclear option" will always be his first option.

If you think this is a fun game and you might win because your opponents, the Democrats ran an extremely weak candidate, you might be right about the winning part, but not about the game.

Electing a person like trump might have no consequences. He might just be an ineffective joke of a president as he thrashes around failing to understand the office. But he might be much, much worse than that. We've already seen what it looks like when the FBI picks a side in an election. What do you think it'll look like when Trump appointees are in charge of every branch of the armed forces and all of our national intelligence?

We already know how Donald Trump uses power: for his own benefit first, last and always. The power he has now is wealth and celebrity. He uses his celebrity to assault women with impunity and brag about it.

He uses his wealth to cheat his business rivals. Donald Trump has ruined people over and over and over again simply for the crime of "crossing" him by demanding he pay his bills.

What do you think the price of "crossing" Donald Trump will be when he's president?
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Steve K
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Right Defcon1. I guess you guys should be prepping then. Probably get a good deal on the stuff you're neighbors bought in '08.
 
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Mike Stiles
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Knewt wrote:

Right Defcon1. I guess you guys should be prepping then. Probably get a good deal on the stuff you're neighbors bought in '08.


Problem is, if you're not a trumpist, you know that those gun power/revenge fantasies are inherently stupid and silly.
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James King
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rylfrazier wrote:
What do you think the price of "crossing" Donald Trump will be when he's president?

His allies in the FBI will set you up to either coerce you to do things the Trump way or you'd be set up to be disgraced obliquely by leaked innuendo of false info from Trump's FBI allies.


 
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James King
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Drew1365 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
When he can't keep a promise, he won't be like GB senior or Obama and simply face his failures, he'll immediately start looking for someone to blame.


laugh

Where is this Obama who faces his failures? Can you manifest him whole from your imagination? The real Obama blames everyone but himself for his failures and his broken promises. It's been his consistent pattern for 8 years.

And for 8 constant years, the Republicans have lived up to the mission statement of their Inauguration Day 2009 cabal.


> Excerpt from the April 10, 2012 Huffington Post news story by Sam Stein entitled:

Investigative Reporter Robert Draper's New Book Reveals How The Republican Party's Anti-Obama Campaign Started On Night Of Obama's 1st Inauguration

As President Barack Obama was celebrating his 1st inauguration at various balls on January 20, 2009, top Republican lawmakers and strategists were conjuring up ways to sabotage and subvert his Presidency at a private dinner in Washington, D.C.

The event -- which provides a telling revelation for how quickly the post-election climate soured -- serves as the prologue of Robert Draper's much-discussed and heavily-reported new book, "Do Not Ask What Good We Do: Inside the U.S. House of Representatives."




According to aurhoe Draper, the guest list that night (which was just over 15 people in total) included Republican Reps. Eric Cantor (Va.), Kevin McCarthy (Calif.), Paul Ryan (Wis.), Pete Sessions (Texas), Jeb Hensarling (Texas), Pete Hoekstra (Mich.) and Dan Lungren (Calif.), along with Republican Sens. Jim DeMint (S.C.), Jon Kyl (Ariz.), Tom Coburn (Okla.), John Ensign (Nev.) and Bob Corker (Tenn.). The non-lawmakers present included Newt Gingrich, several years removed from his presidential campaign, and Frank Luntz, the long-time Republican wordsmith. Notably absent were Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) -- who, Draper writes, had an acrimonious relationship with Luntz.

For several hours in the Caucus Room (a high-end D.C. establishment), the book says they plotted out ways to not just win back political power, but to also put the brakes on Obama's legislative platform.

"If you act like you're the minority, you're going to stay in the minority," Draper quotes McCarthy as saying. "We've gotta challenge them on every single bill and challenge them on every single campaign."

The conversation got only more specific from there, Draper reports. Kyl suggested going after incoming Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner for failing to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes while at the International Monetary Fund. Gingrich noted that House Ways and Means Chairman Charlie Rangel (D-N.Y.) had a similar tax problem. McCarthy chimed in to declare "there's a web" before arguing that Republicans could put pressure on any Democrat who accepted campaign money from Rangel to give it back.

The dinner lasted nearly four hours. They parted company almost giddily. The Republicans had agreed on a way forward:

E Go after Timothy Geithner: (And indeed Kyl did go after Geithner the next day in a badgeringly aggressive way, saying, "Would you answer my question rather than dancing around it — please?")

E Show united and unyielding opposition to the President’s economic policies. (Eight days later, Minority Whip Cantor would hold the House Republicans to a unanimous No against Obama’s economic stimulus plan.)

E Begin attacking vulnerable Democrats on the airwaves: (The first National Republican Congressional Committee attack ads would run in less than two months.)

E Win the spear point of the House in 2010: Jab Obama relentlessly in 2011. Win the White House and the Senate in 2012.


"You will remember this day," Draper reports Newt Gingrich as saying on the way out. "You’ll remember this as the day the seeds of 2012 were sown."

Draper's timeline is correct. On Jan. 21, 2009, Kyl aggressively questioned Geithner during his confirmation hearings. On Jan. 28, 2009, House GOP leadership held the line against the stimulus package (Senate GOP leadership would prove less successful in stopping defections).

The votes, of course, can be attributed to legitimate philosophical objection to the idea of stimulus spending as well as sincere concern that the secretary of the Treasury should personally have a clean tax-paying record. But what Draper's book makes clear is that blunt electoral-minded ambitions were the animating force.

Whether or not that's shocking depends on the degree to which one's view of politics has been jaded. What's certainly noteworthy is the timing. When Mitch McConnell said in October 2010 that his party's primary goal in the next Congress was to make Obama a one-term president, it was treated as remarkably candid and deeply cynical. Had he said it publicly in January 2009, it would likely have caused an uproar.

By extension, however, the Draper anecdote also negatively reflects on the Obama administration for failing to appreciate how quickly congressional Republicans would oppose the President's agenda.






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Adam Alleman
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Drew1365 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
When he can't keep a promise, he won't be like GB senior or Obama and simply face his failures, he'll immediately start looking for someone to blame.


laugh

Where is this Obama who faces his failures? Can you manifest him whole from your imagination? The real Obama blames everyone but himself for his failures and his broken promises. It's been his consistent pattern for 8 years.



So if trump gets elected? we get to hear "but Obama" for four years?
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Adam Alleman
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Not from me. I think the guy has helped the right a lot more than he's moved the country to the left. Obummer is to the right of Ronald Reagan and Faux news gets to trot him out like his totally evil for being "socialist", but he's not. He gave away our health care to insurance companies, he hasn't closed Guantanamo, he's currently bombing up to 7 countries, which is more than Reagan and institutionalized drone killings. At least Bush was straight up about what he was up to. Killary will be just as deceptive as her predecessor, but trump is a dumpster fire.
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Robert Wesley
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Drew1365 wrote:
We've been hearing "Bush's fault" for eight.

So you might want to get used to it.
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James King
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Drew1365 wrote:
Daddys_Home wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
When he can't keep a promise, he won't be like GB senior or Obama and simply face his failures, he'll immediately start looking for someone to blame.


laugh

Where is this Obama who faces his failures? Can you manifest him whole from your imagination? The real Obama blames everyone but himself for his failures and his broken promises. It's been his consistent pattern for 8 years.

So if trump gets elected? we get to hear "but Obama" for four years?

We've been hearing "Bush's fault" for eight.

Considering that 9/11, the second Iraq War, and the housing-bubble collapse all occurred during the 8 years of the Bush/Cheney administration, we'l be continuing to talk about them for some years to come as well.


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J
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Drew1365 wrote:
Daddys_Home wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
When he can't keep a promise, he won't be like GB senior or Obama and simply face his failures, he'll immediately start looking for someone to blame.


laugh

Where is this Obama who faces his failures? Can you manifest him whole from your imagination? The real Obama blames everyone but himself for his failures and his broken promises. It's been his consistent pattern for 8 years.



So if trump gets elected? we get to hear "but Obama" for four years?


We've been hearing "Bush's fault" for eight.

So you might want to get used to it.

Was it justified then? Or will the "other side" just show their hypocritical nature?
 
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Adam Alleman
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Drew1365 wrote:
Daddys_Home wrote:
Obummer is to the right of Ronald Reagan . . .


You either know you're lying or you're clinically insane.


I just told you why, or did you only read the part you quoted?
 
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Nick E
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Daddys_Home wrote:
I just told you why, or did you only read the part you quoted?

Drew1365 wrote:
Right. And it doesn't make sense unless you are lying or clinically insane.

Either will work. Pick one.

So pretty much
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Adam Alleman
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Drew1365 wrote:
Daddys_Home wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
Daddys_Home wrote:
Obummer is to the right of Ronald Reagan . . .


You either know you're lying or you're clinically insane.


I just told you why, or did you only read the part you quoted?


Right. And it doesn't make sense unless you are lying or clinically insane.

Either will work. Pick one.


When did you stop beating your wife?
 
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