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Subject: A few assumptions to confim after first game rss

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Arek
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We played our first game tonight, and although it was very interesting and original, we found it very hard to succeed in investigations and eventually lost quite badly (only one fist rolled, when seven were needed). I think we played it all correctly, but a few questions came up which I'd like to confirm that we played right:

1) I don't see why different coloured investigation tokens are useful. I understand that during the planning phase its good to keep track of cards you are going to investigate so that you know what is still left to visit (but this can be done just as easily by turning the cards 90 degrees) but what does it matter to know whether you needed an item, virtue token or investigation card to succeed. How does that help?

2) I assume any cards taken and used from the investigation deck during an investigation are then discarded from the game entirely, and not to be used in the next chapter or endgame?

3) I assume a used item cannot be reused/depleted until the next chapter or endgame.

4) I assume a depleted item is discarded from the game entirely - unless you reshuffle the discard item pile if you ever run out of items to draw.

5) I assume that the dread value on plot cards for cards where there is no result to Raise Dread is ignored (e.g. the 4 skulls on Reynaud's Residence mean nothing). In which case why do these cards have a dread value?

6) I assume that when raising dread from plot card results or rolling the trauma die, you increase the dread track immediately.

7) I assume nothing special happens if the dread track reaches 50 or more.

8) I assume any items used/depleted in an endgame challenge cannot be used in any subsequent endgame challenge.

9) I assume any cards (distributed from the remaining investigation deck at the start of the endgame) used in an endgame challenge cannot be used in any subsequent endgame challenge.

10) I assume that any players who have been defeated during the endgame challenge cannot roll any action dice in the final showdown, which they acquired before being defeated.

If all my assumptions are correct, then this game seems very hard. So I wonder where our strategy went wrong. We were quite 'lucky' in the planning phase that we found all 5 plot cards after only turning over about 8 cards, so we did not have that many locations to investigate, but I wonder whether we shouldn't have turned over some more in order to try and gain more cards into the investigation deck. What is a good balance of locations to investigate? After the first chapter was over, the dread went up 28 points just from the remaining uninvestigated locations - is that a lot?

I am looking forward to playing it again differently next time.
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Francisco Gutierrez
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1. The different colored tokes are not necessary. They are just a reminder.

2. As I recall, the investigation deck is "reset", as if setting up, when starting another chapter.

3. Not true, at the very least the criminal can use virtue to refresh his items.

4. I seem to recall being able to use an item to draw from the discards.

5. Plot cards need a dread value because they add their dread value to the tracker when the "time phase changes" (when dawn becomes day and when day becomes night).

6. Agreed, I don't know how else you would keep track.

7. Wrong, it's game over if you hit 50 dread.

8. Items are readied before each challenge as well

9. Yeah, it should work in a manner similar to using them in an
investigation.

10. If you are defeated you are out of the game, so you can't roll.

You have to investigate locations otherwise the endgame will be next to impossible,
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Arek
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Thanks, after reading your replies and re-reading the rulebook again (also downloading the updated one from the file section, which I did not know about), I think there are still a couple of things not clear.

2) I cannot see anywhere in the rules explicitly to reset the invetigation deck when starting a new chapter. Step 8 on page 12 simply says setup for the next chapter, but it does not make it clear, what to do. Obviously repopulate the locations, but does it also mean take 3 more confidence cards and add them to the deck, or create a new deck with only 3 cards or what?

8) The rules are contradictory here. The grey box on page 10 titled Readying an item, clearly says you ready items at the start of each chapter, beginning of the endgame and before the final showdown. However, the section Gameplay on page 13 just as clearly states step 1 ready your items, as a step to be done before each challenge. So which is true?
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Jaime de Marcos
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We have already played the first two scenarios a couple of times. I will try to answer some of your questions. I am not answering if your assumption is correct.

1) As it has already been pointed out, these tokens are optional. We do use them, not to mark our way to solve the investigations, but rather to mark where every one of us is going and be sure that we are not missing any relevant cards. So we use the colors simply to identify player 1, 2, etc... The reason is that clocks are sometimes not easy to read and check, especially during the hectic planning phase, and this way we have immediate visual information of where we are planning to go.

2) We are keeping the cards from the investigation deck from chapter 1 to 2. We understand that it is the same investigation and therefore our successes and confidence are still relevant in chapter 2. In the endgame, as the latest FAQ says, the remaining cards are distributed evenly among players.

5) Dread value in plot cards shows how much dread is raised if you fail to investigate them at the required part of the day.

7) Something does happen. You lose the game immediately!

8) You can ready your used items before each challenge and before facing the antagonist. This has been explained elsewhere in this forum by one of the authors. Depleted items are discarded permanently (unless some card allows you to recover one of them).

I do not find the game terribly hard at the 12-minute level of difficulty, but it does require some practice to investigate in a fully cooperative way and not waste time and missed investigations due to misunderstandings and bad communication. Then, at the end, you are just lucky or unlucky with your die roll. Try to keep items that allow you to reroll dice in order to increase your chances of success at the end.
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Francisco Gutierrez
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No worries, I think discussing rules is the best way to learn them

I think you guys are right about number 2. I've mostly played the first scenario and for some reason thought there was an end game phase between each chapter.
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Sebastian Schmohl
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ArekKowalczyk999 wrote:

If all my assumptions are correct, then this game seems very hard. So I wonder where our strategy went wrong. We were quite 'lucky' in the planning phase that we found all 5 plot cards after only turning over about 8 cards, so we did not have that many locations to investigate, but I wonder whether we shouldn't have turned over some more in order to try and gain more cards into the investigation deck. What is a good balance of locations to investigate? After the first chapter was over, the dread went up 28 points just from the remaining uninvestigated locations - is that a lot?


yes it`s a lot! you should try to investigate as many cards you can! Because all of dread cards (except plot cards) you finally investigate will be mixed in your investigation deck! This gives you a better chance to beat the endgame challenges and you have more dice for the final showdown.
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Arek
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Thanks a lot to those who responded. However, I think it would still be nice if there was an official reply (from Asger?) on the two outstanding points I had?

a) is there anything to be done to the investigation deck between chapters (e.g. add 3 more confidence cards)?
b) can you refresh your items after each endgame challenge or only once at the start of the endgame and once before the final showdown (as the rules are contradictory in this respect).
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Mark K.
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Asger replied here regarding b):
https://boardgamegeek.com/article/23857806#23857806

Hope that helps
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Arek
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Ah, brilliant. How did I miss that?? Thanks. Only one left, unless I've been blind in my checking of other posts.
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Asger Johansen
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Hi Arek,

You don't do or add anything to the Investigation Deck between Chapters. The cards you accumulated during the first Chapter simply stay for the second chapter.

Happy gaming!

Asger
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Joshua Lobkowicz
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ArekKowalczyk999 wrote:
We played our first game tonight, and although it was very interesting and original, we found it very hard to succeed in investigations and eventually lost quite badly (only one fist rolled, when seven were needed). I think we played it all correctly, but a few questions came up which I'd like to confirm that we played right:

1) I don't see why different coloured investigation tokens are useful. I understand that during the planning phase its good to keep track of cards you are going to investigate so that you know what is still left to visit (but this can be done just as easily by turning the cards 90 degrees) but what does it matter to know whether you needed an item, virtue token or investigation card to succeed. How does that help?

Because there are multiple ways to solve a card, in playtesting we found players wanted to indicate HOW they did it, not just THAT they did it. There were often situation where players were short and left wondering "was I going to use cards here, or an item?" and then ended up using the wrong one. Players found it frustrating to use an item somewhere early on, then get to a place where they REALLY wanted to use the item and then discover that it wasn't available to them.

Quote:
2) I assume any cards taken and used from the investigation deck during an investigation are then discarded from the game entirely, and not to be used in the next chapter or endgame?

This is correct. Cards drawn from the investigation deck are then lost.

Quote:
3) I assume a used item cannot be reused/depleted until the next chapter or endgame.

This is also correct.

Quote:
4) I assume a depleted item is discarded from the game entirely - unless you reshuffle the discard item pile if you ever run out of items to draw.

Correct.

Quote:
5) I assume that the dread value on plot cards for cards where there is no result to Raise Dread is ignored (e.g. the 4 skulls on Reynaud's Residence mean nothing). In which case why do these cards have a dread value?

If this card is not encountered by the end of the indicated timestamp, you raise dread by the indicated amount. As soon as you cross into Afternoon, for example, any plot cards which show the morning icon produce dread.

Quote:
6) I assume that when raising dread from plot card results or rolling the trauma die, you increase the dread track immediately.

This is correct.

Quote:
7) I assume nothing special happens if the dread track reaches 50 or more.



Quote:
8) I assume any items used/depleted in an endgame challenge cannot be used in any subsequent endgame challenge.
Items refresh before each chapter, before each endgame challenge, and before the final showdown. Depleted items are gone for good.

Quote:
9) I assume any cards (distributed from the remaining investigation deck at the start of the endgame) used in an endgame challenge cannot be used in any subsequent endgame challenge.

This is correct, these cards are spent.

Quote:
10) I assume that any players who have been defeated during the endgame challenge cannot roll any action dice in the final showdown, which they acquired before being defeated.

Also correct, if a character is at risk of being defeated and has several dice, they should withdraw to protect their dice for the final Showdown.

Quote:
If all my assumptions are correct, then this game seems very hard. So I wonder where our strategy went wrong. We were quite 'lucky' in the planning phase that we found all 5 plot cards after only turning over about 8 cards, so we did not have that many locations to investigate, but I wonder whether we shouldn't have turned over some more in order to try and gain more cards into the investigation deck. What is a good balance of locations to investigate? After the first chapter was over, the dread went up 28 points just from the remaining uninvestigated locations - is that a lot?

That is a fairly large amount of dread. You should investigate as many cards as you are certain you can defeat. If you find all the plot cards early, due to the timestamps on them you often can't just get to them all so in the times that you would be waiting, it is often wise to flip more dread cards and plan to take those out. The fewer empty spaces you have in your Action clock, the better you are generally doing.

Quote:
I am looking forward to playing it again differently next time.

Excellent. I look forward to reading about it.

-Josh
Grey Fox Games
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Xavi Bové
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Karmic_devil wrote:
ArekKowalczyk999 wrote:
We played our first game tonight, and although it was very interesting and original, we found it very hard to succeed in investigations and eventually lost quite badly (only one fist rolled, when seven were needed). I think we played it all correctly, but a few questions came up which I'd like to confirm that we played right:

1) I don't see why different coloured investigation tokens are useful. I understand that during the planning phase its good to keep track of cards you are going to investigate so that you know what is still left to visit (but this can be done just as easily by turning the cards 90 degrees) but what does it matter to know whether you needed an item, virtue token or investigation card to succeed. How does that help?

Because there are multiple ways to solve a card, in playtesting we found players wanted to indicate HOW they did it, not just THAT they did it. There were often situation where players were short and left wondering "was I going to use cards here, or an item?" and then ended up using the wrong one. Players found it frustrating to use an item somewhere early on, then get to a place where they REALLY wanted to use the item and then discover that it wasn't available to them.

Quote:
2) I assume any cards taken and used from the investigation deck during an investigation are then discarded from the game entirely, and not to be used in the next chapter or endgame?

This is correct. Cards drawn from the investigation deck are then lost.

Quote:
3) I assume a used item cannot be reused/depleted until the next chapter or endgame.

This is also correct.

Quote:
4) I assume a depleted item is discarded from the game entirely - unless you reshuffle the discard item pile if you ever run out of items to draw.

Correct.

Quote:
5) I assume that the dread value on plot cards for cards where there is no result to Raise Dread is ignored (e.g. the 4 skulls on Reynaud's Residence mean nothing). In which case why do these cards have a dread value?

If this card is not encountered by the end of the indicated timestamp, you raise dread by the indicated amount. As soon as you cross into Afternoon, for example, any plot cards which show the morning icon produce dread.

Quote:
6) I assume that when raising dread from plot card results or rolling the trauma die, you increase the dread track immediately.

This is correct.

Quote:
7) I assume nothing special happens if the dread track reaches 50 or more.



Quote:
8) I assume any items used/depleted in an endgame challenge cannot be used in any subsequent endgame challenge.
Items refresh before each chapter, before each endgame challenge, and before the final showdown. Depleted items are gone for good.

Quote:
9) I assume any cards (distributed from the remaining investigation deck at the start of the endgame) used in an endgame challenge cannot be used in any subsequent endgame challenge.

This is correct, these cards are spent.

Quote:
10) I assume that any players who have been defeated during the endgame challenge cannot roll any action dice in the final showdown, which they acquired before being defeated.

Also correct, if a character is at risk of being defeated and has several dice, they should withdraw to protect their dice for the final Showdown.

Quote:
If all my assumptions are correct, then this game seems very hard. So I wonder where our strategy went wrong. We were quite 'lucky' in the planning phase that we found all 5 plot cards after only turning over about 8 cards, so we did not have that many locations to investigate, but I wonder whether we shouldn't have turned over some more in order to try and gain more cards into the investigation deck. What is a good balance of locations to investigate? After the first chapter was over, the dread went up 28 points just from the remaining uninvestigated locations - is that a lot?

That is a fairly large amount of dread. You should investigate as many cards as you are certain you can defeat. If you find all the plot cards early, due to the timestamps on them you often can't just get to them all so in the times that you would be waiting, it is often wise to flip more dread cards and plan to take those out. The fewer empty spaces you have in your Action clock, the better you are generally doing.

Quote:
I am looking forward to playing it again differently next time.

Excellent. I look forward to reading about it.

-Josh
Grey Fox Games


After playing our furst game most doubts have been solved here, but a new arises, for the endgame challenges, you keep your unused cards plus new confidence cards distributed? Or just these once?

Thanks and congrats for a nice game
 
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Arek
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wow thanks for that comprehensive response. I completely missed it and forgot to check back. It has got me in the mood to get the game out again at our next session. Definitely a different strategy is called for.

thanks again, and it is a very cool game.
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Jaime de Marcos
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For the endgame challenges, you keep your unused cards and you get 2 extra confidence cards per character present at the last plot card. Then you mix and distribute all these cards evenly among all players to face the endgame challenges.
 
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François Mahieu
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Do you keep your items between stories as the game progresses? Or do you reset everything, meaning you would randomly draw a new single item, at the beginning of each new story?



Same question for virtue tokens, injuries...
 
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